What is missing from the "Aja" mastering list is the CSR Japan for US pressing. I have seen this disc but do not own it. It has a DIDX-55 neat font matrix and may be the same mastering as the DADC pressing with its DIDX-55 neat font matrix. But the "Gaucho" CSR Japan for US pressing with DIDX-56 neat font matrix is on the "Gaucho" list as a slightly different mastering from all others, so "Aja" may be different, too. AJ
Just ripped my Aja MCA Japan for USA - CSR Compact Disc - Matrix -DIDX-55 21A1 Track 1 Peak level 90.8 % Track 2 Peak level 91.7 % Track 3 Peak level 90.6 % Track 4 Peak level 88.7 % Track 5 Peak level 96.3 % Track 6 Peak level 86.2 % Track 7 Peak level 97.6 %
Also ripped my MCA Gaucho Japan for USA - CSR COMPACT DISC / Matrix DIDX-56 11 and found something interesting. Its peak levels do not match mastering 3, mastering 11, mastering 12 or any other mastering listed for Gaucho: Track 1 Peak level 91.5 % Track 2 Peak level 86.4 % Track 3 Peak level 90.0 % Track 4 Peak level 83.0 % Track 5 Peak level 81.3 % Track 6 Peak level 84.0 % Track 7 Peak level 82.9 %
Yes - I do. What do you want to know about it, other than it's the SH confirmed mastering of Aja? Cheers, Paul
Interesting. It looks like a weird variant on those, though, doesn't it? Seems to match 3 & 12 except for track 5 and match 11 except for tracks 2 & 3. Makes you wonder what the hell they were doing with those masters. Cheers, Paul
Yep! I suspect that the source is the same, but the levels got altered for some reason, just like what appears to have happened with the Hoffman Aja and mastering 3.
So does this mean the Nichols/ICE Magazine/Billboard story about there being two '80s series (one series using the early 80s digital transfers made by Nichols/Fagen/Katz, the other "faulty" series a new CD master from analog tapes instead of the Nichols/Fagen/Katz transfers) is incorrect? Allegedly Nichols discovered the error when compiling Gold: Expanded Edition, which came out in 1991, so presumably this "faulty" series isn't from the Meadows Citizen-era (1993) remastering.
Why is it again that "Aja" mastering 7 on the UK pressed discs is considered to be the "Hoffman" mastering? What is the confirmation? Because if you think logically about provenance/pressings of the discs for mastering 3, the "Hoffman" mastering far more likely is mastering 3, then the levels slightly altered on mastering 7 for the UK pressed discs. AJ
I believe Steve Hoffman confirmed it. I think is posted somewhere in the archives here. The 3 sure sounds amazing to me, regardless of who mastered it. And honeslty, I can't tell it apart from mastering 7 (the Hoffman mastering.)
That is what I thought I recalled. Yeah, I am doubtful that Steve is correct in his confirmation of mastering 7 as ground zero. The odds of his mastering ending up on a UK pressing, then levels altered for Japan and US pressings seem far fetched. The more likely explanation is that mastering 7 sounds like his mastering because it is his mastering -- just with very minor differences in levels. And mastering 3 also sounds like his mastering because it is his mastering. AJ
First, these three are all his "mastering", although two of them have had changes applied to it. It's not far fetched if SH's digital master wasn't used without those changes originally for some reason (happened all the time in the 80s), shelved, then reused, untouched, for that UK pressing, if they requested a digital master from MCA US, for example. Far stranger things have happened. SH compared directly two of these CDs and confirmed that #7 was his original mastering. IIRC, one of the others has a -60dB noise (dither? analog noise?) applied over #7 when nulled, confirming that it couldn't have been the original.
I think I would agree with that, although my big remembrance of the differences is that things were centered more on the 7, or the lower bass range resides a bit higher in the image (that making the bass more prominent I suppose), it was all a bit more connected on the 7; that and a bit longer decay on certain small things. The differences are pretty subtle though, and the 3 is plenty fine.
Subtle indeed! As I said, can't hear a difference between them and the EQ of each appears to be the same in Audacity. Maybe we can enlist @kevin5brown to work out a graph to show us if/where the EQ differences are. I can supply the samples tonight, if you are game, Kevin.
Not necessarily so. The audio difference left over from a null test does not indicate from which audio clips(s) the difference(s) originate. If mathematically A - B = C, then C could be because A = X + C or B = X - C or A = X + C/Y and B = X - C/Z. To put it in slightly less abstract terms, if audio clips A - B = 10, then that does not mean clip A is greater than clip B in absolute terms because, for example, clip A = 25 and clip B = 15 computes but so does clip A = -15 and clip B = -25. In the first example, clip A is greater in absolute terms; in the second example, clip B is greater in absolute terms. AJ
True, but the test was confirmed with a spectrogram IIRC (more energy in the resulting isolated frequencies on the offending master).
Well, per reported figures, the peak energy is marginally greater on mastering 3 on some tracks, marginally greater on mastering 7 on other tracks. Somebody run mastering 7 through the DR meter and post the log. I already have metered mastering 3 and will post the log in just a moment from my CD ripping PC. AJ
"Aja" mastering 3: Code: Analyzed: Steely Dan / Aja [MCAD-37214; DIDX-00055] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR15 -0.83 dB -18.38 dB 5:10 01-Black Cow DR14 -0.75 dB -18.54 dB 7:58 02-Aja DR14 -0.85 dB -16.86 dB 7:37 03-Deacon Blues DR12 -1.03 dB -15.78 dB 3:57 04-Peg DR13 -0.32 dB -15.64 dB 5:35 05-Home At Last DR15 -1.28 dB -18.48 dB 5:07 06-I Got The News DR14 -0.21 dB -16.79 dB 4:32 07-Josie AJ
From the DR Database, this appears to be mastering 7: Code: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR15 -0.84 dB -18.38 dB Steely Dan - 01. Black Cow.wav DR14 -0.75 dB -18.54 dB Steely Dan - 02. Aja.wav DR14 -0.83 dB -16.83 dB Steely Dan - 03. Deacon Blues.wav DR12 -1.02 dB -15.79 dB Steely Dan - 04. Peg.wav DR13 -0.32 dB -15.64 dB Steely Dan - 05. Home at Last.wav DR15 -1.29 dB -18.44 dB Steely Dan - 06. I Got The News.wav DR14 -0.21 dB -16.79 dB Steely Dan - 07. Josie.wav But having someone with a known disc meter it would be better confirmation. AJ
I find these threads confusing, but I thought mastering 3 was the Nichols, and 7 was the only confirmed Hoffman. I have both; the Japan for US CSR 21A1 and the UK Nimbus DMCL 1745 (no IFPI on mine) and they certainly sound different. Both are truly excellent, the latter a just little warmer in the mid, which corresponds with the slight mid EQ scoop I recall SH saying he'd done.
The numbers do not lie. As long as the numbers posted above apply, mastering 3 and mastering 7 are not truly different masterings from different engineers. And they do not have different EQ. The measurements are much too close between the two for different EQs; George P's testing in Audacity also showed the same. So, any perceived differences between mastering 3 and mastering 7 most likely can be attributed to confirmation bias or placebo effect. AJ
