Stereo channel inversion

On some of my CDs, when there's a louder lead guitar on the left channel (rhythmic on the right one) the left channel is, of course, annoyingly louder, and the whole thing sounds imbalanced. Same on my PC , and/or with headphones) Since one of my fav local bands released a new CD, of which I already had the demo, and for some reason they reversed the guitars; the lead was on the right channel on the demo, and they just included this demo for the first half of their CD release, but reversed the guitar for unknown reasons.

On the demo, both channels sounded even, but on the CD, the lead guitar, now migrated to the left, sounded way louder. I compared levels an all, both on my amp output, PC, etc, and nothing was really changed, except for this reversal. So I reversed channels on the amp (reversing the RCAs, and it sounded just like on the demo (well, not the drums, of course)

With this experience i mind, I did the same on another CD I listened for the first time, and voilá, same satisfactory result. Not orthodox, I know, but it solved the problem.

Now to the question : why does reversing channel work ? It should just make the right channel way louder. Is it my hearing ? (paradoxically the right one is my better ear) Is it the positioning of my floorstanders ? Is it the room ? Befuddled

 

Sorry, meant invertion, not revertion on the title. Hope a gort can correct this.

 

You can correct it yourself for up to 30 min after it's posted.

 

Any chance you have some hearing loss in your right ear?

Or the left speaker is against a wall or more in a corner?

 

Maybe it's your recently self made acoustic panel on the left ?

 

I tried, but the it didn't allow me to correct the thread title. Asked a gort already.

 

It's the right one that's closer to a wall. although still at the acceptable 2 feet distance, so no.

 

The new panel is on the right side, to address the first reflection point of the right speaker, so no.

 

Well I have run into recordings which do seem to be too hot on one side, perhaps you just don't mind them when they're hotter in the right hand side?

The right ear feeds the left brain, which is the analytical side.

Pretty worthless feedback, I know, I'm sorry, I'm out of ideas.

 

Totally worthwhile feedback; you just made my day ! My left ear has a slight loss in the upper midrange/lower treble, which may be causing discomfort at those frequencies (esp heavy guitars) Maybe my right ear doesn't mind a hotter input, as you say, since it has a flatter response to those frequencies ?

 

I think that is entirely possible, given my weird experiences with tinnitus. I have tinnitus caused by problems with my jaw. I can actually alleviate it, by playing music with enough cymbal crashes. For many people, that would exacerbate their tinnitus. So I guess my point is, where hearing is concerned, you can expect some strangeness in terms of what makes things better/worse/different.

 

I would recommend doing a mono pink noise listening test on headphones to see if it is your ears that are the problem

 

listen through some ear / head phones.
if the imbalance is still there it is the recording or your ears.
reverse the headphones.
imbalance in same channel it is the recording
imbalance same ear, it is your hearing.
if through headphones the imbalance is gone it is your system or room
acoustics.
i am betting its the recording

 

Yes indeed; I inverted the channels and ran it through the VU Meter computer program; this is a passage during which the 2 guitars interplay, with no drums or vocals. The problematic guitar is way louder in the mix :



It is not that noticeable through the rig though, with the channels also inverted. Headphone tests were inconclusive.

 

Perhaps that's the intended mix? And the inversion of channels occurred when the demo was mastered for CD?

There is no rule that says that the L/R channels should be even in a mix, take the Van Halen debut for example. You try and balance that one evenly and you'll go mad

Vocals, drums and bass spread from the middle to one side and Edward Van Halen's guitar on the opposite side and louder than everything else. Unorthodox, but it works.

 

It doesn't help, but the thread title puts me in mind of this clip:

 

Hey! How's it going?
First, if we want to get technical, the correct term is "reversed" stereo channels. ("rev") FYI The term, "Inverted" describes phase or polarity of a channel. The demo you describe may be a different mix, so, the lead guitar solo parts may be a different presentation when adjusted to (rev) stereo.. to match the same channel orientation as the CD, so this may be almost apples and oranges. The way an instrument settles in the mix can change its perceived volume. So it's my guess, the sound engineers (maybe the artist) wanted the lead guitar part to stand out more, or placed more forward and left.

The stereo soundfield isn't always balanced. Two dB applied to one instrument can make a huge difference in perceived sound. A good example is Jeff Beck "Truth", "Shapes of Things" (and other tracks) that Beck's guitar "leaps out" on one channel (I think the left) with only light reverb on the opposite channel. This effect in essence places Beck at stage left. There is no interaction of the lead guitar on the opposite channel, which can be masked by other instruments... (therefore more gain required on the lead instrument to dominate, but too much can become musically detached.. weird stuff) So, panning left or right can enhance the articulation of the guitar making it stand out. To treat a lead instrument otherwise, runs a higher risk of too much harmonic interaction with other instruments, which can "cloud" or "mask" or "muddy" the mix. So, it is important to not balance the mix always.. which can widen the soundfield, and introduce "surprise" and excitement... sometimes better to be "unbalanced".

The above is more about the mix stage of production, which the consumer can do nothing about. However some understanding, regardless of our personal taste or opinion, may be helpful in acceptance of it.

As for the loudness of the guitar part perceived on the opposite channel, this could be a hearing null. I have one, which most of the time I never notice. However at the sound of a particular eastern cricket, at precisely 3.9k (I seem to recall) My left ear has reduced sensitivity. I never notice it by other sounds of nature, such as birds, nor any musical instrument... except now I have the curse of knowledge. I can hear a difference sometimes when an instrument resonates between 3.7k and 4.2k (3.9k is the center of the null) but not notice when not paying attention. Every person's hearing will have nulls, with only rare exception. We don't notice them usually because of their typical narrow band nature. However electric guitar is naturally "peaky" with specific narrow band resonances. The peaks are much more audible than a hearing null, so we are sensitive to peaks. But.... if a musical resonant peak lines up to a null on one ear, the balance can be thrown off, but only on that ONE instrument on one ear.

So the above concerns hearing nulls which are normal, and not necessarily hearing loss.

Room acoustics can also play on the stereo soundfield. Room boundaries are part of the system. In fact reflective speaker designs use hard surfaces to reflect the driver's energy. It is possible the room has an affect on the lead guitar part in question. Absorption can cause a null on one channel or more likely a reflective wall causing reinforcement on the opposite channel.

A good test to find out the cause of the imbalance, (the loud guitar not as loud when you reverse the channel) try headphones. Flip the headphones to reverse the channels. If the imbalance persists on headphones, it's the ears.

 

guessing you like older rock and blues like me....pretty common to have lead guitar or even lead vocal in one channel back then.

 

This might not be the same thing at all but I have a slight treble loss in my right ear and I notice a strange effect with earbuds - which I hardly ever use. If I reverse them (that is putting the left bud in the right ear, etc.) I get a large reduction in volume.
When I pull them out and put them in the correct ears, the volume goes back to normal.
Both buds are identical so I don't think it can be anything to do with the shape of them.

 

The solution is simple: Adjust the balance control on your amplifier to suit your preference. I know die-hard audio purists freak out if you ever move the bass and treble controls away from the center position -- or even have bass and treble controls in the first place! -- but there is absolutely nothing wrong with adjusting the balance to whatever position sounds best to you, whether it is to compensate for speaker positioning, hearing loss in one ear, or just personal taste.

 

That's exactely the album I was thinking about, most of drum sound is in the center with some cymbals panned mostly to the right channel, Roth's voice is dead center, bass guitar sounds like mono and EVH guitar is dead left and at a higher level than anything else in the mix. It's a completely unbalanced sound mix but it works great, at least I love how it sounds.
Don't take for granted that on a sound mix instruments are going to be evenly spread across the soundstage, not everybody mix like Boston's Tom Scholz, fortunately.
Cuídate criollo, y no comas muchos asados.

 

No como asado, y muchas gracias por tu contribución a mi thread

 

Mi familia argentina (mi tía Carmen, hermana de mi padre, es española pero se la llevaron a Buenos Aires con dos años) que vive aquí y que se vinieron a España tras el Corralito Financiero en el 2.002 sólo saben comer asado (y la carne en el Sur de España es pésima), pizza, que sí que la hacen muy buena, y pasta, y no les saques de ahí. Con los supermercados españoles llenos de buen pescado a preciomuy razonable y buenas hortalizas y verduras aún más baratas porque las producimos nosotros, pero ellos no comen nada de eso. Ellos se lo pierden.
Sin embargomi prima Chela que vive entre Buenos Aires y San Clemente del tuyú cuando vino de vacaciones a España y se quedó en nuestra casa le dijo a mi madre (con quien se lleva muy bien y es su sobrina "putativa", no consanguínea) "tía, por favor, el tiempo que esté aquí nome pongas carne, estoy hasta la concha de comer carne.
Cuando probó el bacalao parecía que iba a entrar en éxtasis como Santa Teresa.
Sorry for the off topic in Spanish.

 

Pero qué envidia ! Además van a perder su salud. Como carne cada tanto, en porciones muy pequeñas. Hoy comí un delicioso jurel con hortalizas. Aquí la gente ama comer mierda, y de la más cara para peor, si hasta los intestinos de la vaca comen a la parilla. Si viviera en tu país comería un año seguido paella y bacalao ahumado. Comida Mediterránea; la mejor !

 

Yo paella no,la detesto,pero sí me gusta el arroz de otras maneras, como por ejemplo como lo cocinan los orientales (tienen más recetas además del típico tres delicias) o mejor aún, aunque es carísimo, arroz caldoso con Bogavante como lo cocinan los portugueses. Y si hablamos de Bacalao, hay que hablar también de Portugal, es su plato nacional ( y eso que ellos cocinan principalmente con Bacalao noruego), tienen no sé cuántas formas de prepararlo, a cada cual mejor. El más típico es el Bacalhao A Bras, lleva patatas,no recuerdo qué verduras, nata, Bacalao por supuesto y la parte final son patatas paja, patatas cortadas en tiras finísimas y fritas, y ya fritas (pero no doradas) se ponen al final para que se terminen de dorar al horno. Por un buen plato de bacalao o de pulpo doy lo que sea.
El pulpo "A Feira" (lo que se conoce normalmente como "Pulpo a la Gallega", que es una receta distinta) es mi comida preferida. Un buen pulpo cuantomás grande, gallegoo marroquí que es excelente y se usa mucho en Galicia, le das "unha boa malleira" (una buena paliza, para romper las fibras musculares y que ablande,también vale congelarlo durante varios días), tienes agua hirviendo en un caldero, si es de cobre mejor (pero el cobre no se puede poner en una vitrocerámica) y lo metes y sacas tres veces hasta que los tentáculos encojan, así no se pela al cocerlo,la piel es lo que tiene más sabor. Lo dejas cocer en ese agua hirviendo y le metes dentro una patata de tamaño medio. Cuando la patata está completamente cocida, el pulpo ya está en su punto (luego la patata si la quieres la comes o no), escurres el pulpo, lo dejas enfriar, lo cortas con unha tixola (una tijera de cocina) en rodajas, y el cuerpo también, y lo condimentas con un buen aceite de oliva virgen andaluz, pimentón de La Vera (una comarca de extremadura) bien dulce o picante, eso y la cantidad va al gusto, a mí me gusta que rabie, y sal GORDA, no de cocina. Esa es mi comida preferida junto con el bacalao.
¿Sabes lo bueno del pulpo? Creo que es una de las pocas de comidas que podrías comer a diario y sería saludable porque no tiene nada nocivo, ni ácido úrico,ni colesterol, es todo vitaminas, minerales, proteínas de origen no animal de granja, que son las buenas junto con las vegetales. Lo malo es que el pulpo es caro, hay más demanda de él que la cantidad de pulpo que se llega a capturar.
Nótase que a miña nai é galega, ¿non si?