Steve would you comment on Noise Reduction with Compression added to it?

Steve,
Usually I approach this from a Musician's point of view. Basically when playing and during recording sessions if I were to use these effects as part of the sound I wanted to get out of my guitar I wouldn't mind using it. But when it's used after the fact for remastering this is where I'm looking for your expertise to comment to one and all here. This is a Thanks in advance!

 

I was hoping for a bit more but right to the point is cool. Is this the same reason that The Beatles ONE would be a perfect example of this to you?

 

A good reason for bringing this question out would be Mirror Spock for example and all this talk of needle drops from a record and then cleaning it up all using a computer and or digital technology to do these type of things, to make a boot of a recording that the Record Industry executive's seem to think there's no money in them doing the real thing themselves. Although they have the actual master tapes to do so. I would say using as an example the US or Capitol versions of The Beatles LP's in both Mono and Stereo. I'm basically saying it's sad that this music has to be found on Ebay or directly through guys like Dr Ebbert or Mirror Spock. As well as anyone else with a good computer set up and the right type of software just like the digital unwrapper. What exactly do you think of this stuff. My best guess is you must sort of hate it as you have proven time and time again that when given the master tapes and the right type of mixing console(s) that you can in fact make a superior sounding version from the original without the use of a computer to make a master for pressing for all to buy a new remastered disc and enjoy. So I really hope the Record Companies do read this forum as well as you get the word out to the correct people that you know that there is a tremendous amount of people out there that will buy and pay good money for good sounding music. Again thanks for any of your thoughts and replies!

 

I know you are asking Steve, but I think the rules change when it comes to vinyl. I have a way to retain the natural sound of LPs while still using NR. The trick is to be ever so careful and to apply it very lightly. Problem is, most people aren't, and tend to try to get a dead silent backdrop.

 

Actually Grant, the question is to Steve, but the reason for this thread is for one and all to share or reveal any idea's, thoughts and opinions on this. Please shed a little more light as to what you were saying when it comes to using vinyl to make a needle drop. Do you first copy the vinyl to a CD and then transfer that to your computer to do the rest. Anything to speak of from beginning to end of reaching what you would be happy with as a final product of what you might work on to achieve a better sounding recording other than having the master tapes of the artist. How do you not destroy and or perhaps make it a clean sounding analog to digital recording to CD.

 

Steve, what I would like to know is Grant using a studio or is this being done with just a needle drop directly into his computer and then is some sort of software just being used to de-click the noise from the vinyl. I've read on here before but I don't recall the name of the thread it was on, in other words, would Grant tell us all more? As well as anyone else on the forum who makes there own needle drops. I don't have the knowledge to do this on my own. I do however have lots of wonderful out of print old Imports and Jazz Guitar LP's that I would love to have on CD. Steve when was the last time you saw a Royal Roost record on CD. I have to mention this as to my story about Johnny Smith's guitar originally being made by John DeAngelico a picture of him and that same guitar is on that Royal Roost LP I have. I'm sure I could mess around to eventually find out the best way to do this type of stuff but I'd rather learn from someone who has had the knowledge of what to do and what not to do. Again this would be much easier if these recording's were already made on CD to just PURCHASE!!!!

 

I am not sure what you are reffering to when you say "Royal Roost" but all of Johnny's Roost recordings are available on CD from Mosaic Records.

The Complete Roost Johnny Smith Small Group Sessions (MD8-216)

Check out the discography to see if the recordings you are looking for are part of the package. It's a wonderful boxset BTW. No Smith fan should be without it.

 

Doing needle drops is really a crapshoot, depending on the vinyl in question.

What I do is just on my home PC with Cool Edit Pro and Sound Forge. There's no rocket science involved, just care taken to get the best results I can. I go from the preamp into my soundcard using "audiophoile cables".

The soundcard, I have found, is crucial to your final sound, and how easy or difficult your job will be. Yopu don't have to have the best, but a card with good specs will get you far. You don't need a card that does 20-24 bit, but it could help. I tend to thing that doing vinyl with 20 bits is overkill, but that's just me. However, whether you process at 16, 20, 24, or 32-bit float is crucial! But, if you work at a higher bit depth, you will have to use dither to get to 16-bit for your CD. No way around it, if you care about the sound! You can help things by using noise shaping, but you have to experiment to find that balance between the source and the dithered 16-bit version.


Needless to say, the cart you use is of great importance. You don't have to have the best, but just something that is smooth, not etched, and is as close to accurate as you can afford.

I record at 16-bit/44.1. Cool Edit converts to 32-bit on the fly, if I desire, to save a step. My card's internal sampling rate is 48kHz, but is one of those rare cards in it's price range that does transparent sample rate conversion. So, I never worry about that.

After I record, I take care of any overs that may have happened with a de-clipper. I do this by either converting to 32-bit, or doing the spike by itself.

Using NR is just a matter of getting a good noiseprint and using the right settings in Cool Edit. Sometimes i'll use a de-hisser. I usually don't slash the low-end above 20Hz because music lives down there. I don't remove any noise on jazz or classical vinyl rips because if nothing else, it will thin out the bass. I just gate the ends.

Ah... Hell, I just do what I do to get the thing on CD-R! I don't try to change the sound unless it's really extreme, which means, I don't usually EQ. I do sometimes use a limiter to boost a file by a decibel or two, but I do NOT do like these record companies want! I try to maintain the sound of the original dynamics.

But, all that as it is, I can get my vinyl to sound like the LP without changing it with NR.

 

WOW!!!!! Steve the LP I have has a color picture of his Johnny DeAngelico as I like to call it. On the Royal Roost LP cover you can really see the 3 tone sunburst on it from black to red to burst yellow.
Now I know why you are "MAGIC" ALEX, LOL......although I realize the Apple Electronics reference is what it refer's to.
But again this would be one case perhaps though there are many but again I would like to use the Beatles US LP's in Mono and Stereo. I know they are out there for sale on Ebay or elsewhere. I would like to be able to do some of this myself and for myself as I have no interest in making this a needle drop other than for listening either at home while online or in my car driving back and forth to work daily. Good music on the way to work always seems to make my days better. At night on the way home usually after 9 pm good music makes me feel like I just got done playing a really good gig at a club. This is what I used to actually do for a living!

 

Grant thanks for all that insightful information. I tried to private message you but it said you needed to clean out your mail before you could receive anything else! LOL!! Must be they forward your BILLS here !!!

 

Grant, what do you mean by "gate the ends"? It sounds like you're chopping off anything above or below certain frequencies where there's only noise or TT rumble.

I've played around with the NR on Cool Edit 1.2 with mixed results. After a while, I just left everything alone.

 

Will get on that cleaning out soon.

 

Gating the ends is just taking out the noise at the very beginning before the music starts. or fading the ends. Gating can be smoother than simply fading the volume. But, one has to be very careful!

When using the Cool Edit NR, one must be very careful to get a noise print of ONLY noise, no music! You can virtually eliminate artifacts by using the spectral decay in version 2.1 (a good reason to upgrade, for free!).

I should add that I never try to remove noise or hiss from tape. The mosyt I may do is slash everything below 15Hz if I feel it is warrented. Otherwise, all tape goes straight to 16-bit. I fade the ends and then burn the CD.

 

Grant's the man.

I can't emphasize enough how much the Spectral Decay feature can help eliminate artifacts!!!

Also, if you have an LP that has a lot of, what I like to call, groove wind (wind, like the breeze) and you've already de-clicked and de-crackled it, try using NR from only 600Hz on down. But use it sparingly, of course. Forget about removing tape hiss. Shame on everyone that does so.

Oh, watch out for low-level thumps or bumps too when you choose audio from which to get a Noise Profile. They have a tendency to thin out the bass if you're not careful.

Matt

 

Thanks, Grant. I just silence out the pauses between songs and fade out the track quickly as soon as the music has ended. Depending on the piece, my fades last anywhere from 1/2 sec. to a full sec.

I realize this may not be to everyone's liking.

 

Matt, thanks for the tip! I'll add that to my list of suggestions. I stopped trying to remove tape hiss after hearing the nasty artifacts it left behind.

 

I would never think of slashing the frequencies below 600Hz! That's way too high! I hope your numbers are wrong because that's higher than the crossover frequency in most speakers! I will add at this point that one should never attempt to use computer speakers for this type of work! Most don't have adequete response in the lower regions so you can't actually tell what you are chopping off!

What I use to kill low level thumps is Click Fix's "Fix Single Click" button. Works like a charm. Other times, i'll isolate the thump and use the scientific filter to cut it out around 50-80Hz, only if it does not affect5 the music. Or, i'll use Cool Edit's "Fill Single Click" button with an FFT of 128.

Reducing noise from an LP with tight edits, or crossfades between songs gets very tricky. In those cases, if I can't use a clean noise print from the beginning of a side or the end of a side, i'll just gate the thing.

I chop up the big wave into individual tracks. This way, I can concentrate on one song, and one song only. If I need to transfer the track to another program for some specialized work, I can do that easily. I can tailor the dither/noise shaping to the particular song. And, I can custom adjust the gaps (spread) between songs, if I desire, or crossfade them. If I want, I can rearrainge the running order and do all the above!

Anyone who uses NR on a tape should be, as Steve says, drawn and quartered!

 

This stuff is GREAT you guys keep talking. So far this thread has done more for my cold than any Antibiotics, and Decongestants I've taken! Plus I get to learn something!

WAY TO COOL

 

I know I have to ask this question so here goes.

What version of Cool Edit should one get? As I see on their homepage that there is Cool Edit Pro 2.1 or Cool Edit 2000. Which is the better of the 2 to use?