Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

"Time Immemorial" is one of my favorite Crowded House songs. I'm not really sure what it's about as the lyrics don't make a great deal of sense to me. While this is generally an impediment to my enjoyment of a song, it's not here mainly because I love the sound, the instrumentation, and the melody so damn much. The only thing that keeps the song from being a 5 for me is the weird instrumental jam on the outro starting at 3:22 that doesn't sound as if it belongs to the rest of the song. It feels tacked on and takes away a bit of the magic from the song as a whole. This would have been a great addition to Woodface (the first of the "outtakes" we've discussed thus far that I can say that about) - I'd have placed it at the close of the album after "How Will You Go" and in place of "I'm Still Here". When Afterglow came out in 1999, this was one of the highlights of that album.

4.8/5

 

It's a song I ought to like but somehow it always underwhelms me. Perhaps it's just too long. If it were edited down to around a couple of minutes it would probably be perfectly fine. As it is, it overstays its welcome. That said, there's nothing much to actively dislike. 3/5.

 

"Time Immemorial" is more than just folky, it's Irish folky. There's very little overtly Irish influence in Neil's music (at least to my ears), but it's definitely present here. I love the melody and the gentle feel of the song (at least until the unsettling coda). This was never going to be a classic, but it's a solid piece of work, and it's a shame that it never found more of a home than "Afterglow."

4/5

 

Time Immemorial might have worked better if it were more simply arranged and shorter. It sounds like Neil was trying to make a "Grand Statement", but the recording process never quite got the song to where he wanted it to go. The melody is pretty, but not as inventive as Neil can be.
Despite all that, I do like it and it gets a 3.75/5.

 

In the bonus disc that came with the limited edition Afterglow, Neil specifically mentions that this song suffered from some "lyrical ambiguity." I totally get what he means here because they don't quite paint a picture or put together a narrative, even by Neil Finn "vague allusions or a series of images that may or may not go together" standards.

For me though - I love the music and the vocal melody on this thing, and the only thing holding it back from being one my very favorite tunes is that the lyrics don't quite reconcile to me. Given that I've ranked some of the stuff that's way at the top of my list with scores higher than 5, and this just narrowly misses, I'm going with 5/5 here.

 

Yeah, this is definitely one of the better songs on Afterglow.
Time Immemorial gets a 4/5

 

I do like this song. I agree that it could have done with a bit more arrangement. E.g. the synth bass coming in at the end really works for me. I think the lyrics are absolutely fine, e.g. 'tear down the fence you're sitting on'. I agree with the previous interpretations of the lyrics, talking about the physical house on one level, but talking about the band and Neil himself on another level. I think the melody is great. This would stand up fine on Weed^H^H^H^H Woodface, and perhaps even TA. (Though the production would have to change for the latter.) I don't think the song is too long, even with the current arrangement. It's a fine song.

4.2/5

About the time signature, I think this is one of those songs that is often said to be in 3/4, but to me it sounds like 6/8. The hi-hats are counting out six per bar and I hear that rocking backwards and forwards two beats to the bar feel that is typical of 6/8, rather than the three beats to the bar waltz feel of 3/4. Also, if this was 3/4 then the tempo would be uber-quick, and it feels like a slow tempo song to me. It's not as 6/8 sounding to me as Pineapple Head, which I *really* think is 6/8 even though I've seen Neil describe it as 3/4. Any opinions?

 

I would say this is 3/4, but I'm no musicologist.

Pineapple head is weirder: maybe 6/8 or even 12/8, I guess? I'm not good enough to really say.

 

Sheet music on google says “Pineapple Head” is in 6/8.

 

I'm pretty sure I once heard Neil count in to Pineapple Head with "1,2,3,1,2,3..."

That's largely meaningless, but I was feeling left out.

 

Well he may not be able to count higher. He’s not a mathematician.

 

I find myself unable to count a "1 and 2 and 3 and" to Time Immemorial, while a "1 and a 2 and a" fits perfectly to me.

12/8 would be four beats per bar. Hmmm.... I'll give PH a listen.

 

He certainly does so on the Fleadh recording. But, I think he described it as 3/4 somewhere.

I'm pretty sure that Neil said 3/4 though. It's interesting, as it shows that while music theory can be very useful, you certainly don't need it or only a bit of it to write great songs. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

"Time Immemorial" is an excellent song and I agree with Robcar that it would have made a fine addition to "Woodface" as its final track. It has a kind of "final song statement" about it and it is the perfect way to close the (original) "Afterglow". It's quite a unique track with the blend of Irish folkiness and waltz-ish rhythm. Paul's drumming is really in empathy with the feel of the song. I often think that his onstage humour and goofiness (on the good days) have in a way resulted in him being underestimated as a musician.
The lyrics are a bit obscure when I just read them (on lyrics sites on the net) without hearing the music, but when I hear the song they seem to make sense. I interpret them as being about things that can cause stress both in bands and in relationships - conflicts about the direction forward, financial worries and perhaps that the persons involved take each other for granted and don't always realise how much the other person(s) contribute. "The house that we live in is falling apart / There's no guarantee cause we got it for free / And all the pretenders to somebody's throne / Are finding it out on their own" could be about Neil's reactions to first the unexpected, delayed commercial success of Crowded House's debut album and then "Temple" not achieving the same kind of success in the charts. He has spoken about feeling guilt about their success and the stress of all expectations (from the record company, media, the band themselves) for more success and it must be difficult for all musicians that chart positions and commercial success one year can be followed by "failure" the next year. And these lines also hint at a disturbance that success isn't only dependent on the quality of the actual music, there are some elements of luck involved as well as indie promoters being involved or not, video clips getting shown on MTV, the promotional work of the record company and so on. I guess Neil, like many people with long careers, sometimes find it difficult to handle that popularity will go up, will go down, will go up again, will go down again ad infinitum.

I must say it really baffles me why this song was not on "Woodface".

4,5/5.

 

Pineapple Head sounds to me like it could go either way. 3/4 or 6/8. It sounds a little fast for 6/8 but it I don't think it's wrong to write it out that way. In my experience, there isn't always a clear demarcation.

 

I agree, and the only reason I can think is that Woodface already has a folky track ("How Will You Go") so someone thought one was enough.
Personally I prefer it to "How Will You Go" and would have been happy for a direct substitution on Woodface to maintain the one-folk-song quota.
4/5

I agree with this too, and to my ears "How Will You Go" sounds more Irish than "Time Immemorial" which I have always assumed was down to Tim, who has written lots of music with Irish influence.

 

A nice song, but it feels very derivative to me. Nothing specific, but the overall sound is rather generic.

3/5.

 

I generally don't like waltzes, but on the other hand it sometimes happens that my favorite song by an artist is a waltz, I'm very inconsistent that way.

This 3/4 or 6/8 song doesn't bother me at all, unlike my least favorite song by Neil, which should come up in 3 or 4 months from now. I'm sticking by my 3.75/5, which is the same as 3/4.

 

I love TI, my favorite on this album. Should’ve been on Woodface. 4.8/5.

 

Our votes for "Time Immemorial"

1-0
2-0
3-3
4-7
5-4
Average: 3.9962

all this talk of 3/4 or 6/8 really confused me.

 

In Spring of 1989, Tim finished his North American tour and took a holiday in Melbourne. At that time he and Neil got together to try writing some demos for their long-discussed "solo-duo" album. IN contrast to the songs Neil was writing for Crowded House, which were coming with a great struggle, these Tim and Neil co-writes flowed from their collective pens, and over 14 songs were written in just ten days. Many of these songs would eventually be recorded for their projected Finn album, which would later be absorbed into Crowded House when Tim joined in the next year.

But first proper demos had to be recorded. For this Tim, Neil recorded at a flat on Murchison Street, which Neil had recently bought as a demo recording studio as his wife was about to deliver a new baby, Elroy Finn. Paul Hester was along to lend percussion (cardboard box and polystyrene cymbal, brushes) and backing vocals.

The trio recorded a number of songs: most of the demos they recorded which made it on to Woodface, Together Alone or Before and After have been released, as B-sides in the mid-90s and/or on the deluxe albums from 2016. I will link to these demos when their respective studio versions are discussed.

Today the one Finn brother song from these demo sessions for which there is no studio version counterpart will be discussed.

 

Today's song is "Prodigal Son", written by Neil and Tim Finn, with lead vocals by Neil and Tim Finn. A cursory search on YouTube did not reveal it. Fortunately, it is available for streaming on The Kitchen Sink III, the streaming album on neilfinn.com put together by @Jaffaman, to whom much credit goes for making these rarities available for fans. This is the type of cool thing that makes Neil Finn such a rewarding object of fandom.

Neil Finn - The Kitchen Sink III — Neil Finn

(It's the seventh song from the top. Also included on this page is the lyric.)

"Prodigal Son" was released as a B-side to the double EP of Suffer Never in 1995. (At least in the UK.)

Tomorrow we will begin talking about Tim's spate of collaborations from 1990.

Those will be:

• Long Hard Road (Tim Finn-Phillip Judd)
• Precious Time (T. Finn-Judd)
• Tai Chi (Judd)
• A Million Reasons Why (T. Finn-Phil Manzanera-Gary Dyson)
• Rich and Poor (Manzanara - T.finn)
• Dance (Break This Trance) (Manzanara-T.Finn)
• Verde (Manzanara-T. Finn)
• Dr. Fidel (Manzenara-T.Finn)
• Venceremos (Manzanera T.Finn)
• Astrud (T.Finn)
• Fifth Wheel (Manzanera-T.Finn)
• Blue Hills (T.Finn)--performed by Daryl Braithwaite, released in 1988, but hitherto unknown to me

 

It took a few listens, but I have come to the conclusion that "The Prodigal Son" is a great folk/R&B song by the brothers.

The lyric is a retelling of the biblical Prodigal Son parable from the point of view of his parents.

Rhythmically I think it's a little similar to "Chocolate Cake", and I think they made the right decision to leave it off Woodface, as the serious subject matter and biblical allusions dont seem quite right for Crowded House; but I think it's a worthy song.

I don't know if they ever got around to trying to record it at Periscope; but the demo has the sort of spooky menacing folk atmosphere that sinks in after repeated listens. And as always the harmony vocals of the two Finns are absolutely sublime.

4.3/5

 

Further research has revealed that this song was released in 1994, so I'll wait until after Before and After for it.

 

I've always liked "Prodigal Son" since I first heard it back in 1995 as one of the b-sides on the "Suffer Never" single by The Finn Brothers. It's a bit surprising that it's been the only one of the completed 1989 Finn Brothers demos (that we know of) not to be later released in a full-fledged studio rendition. I don't know if it has ever even been performed live through the years. The harmonies are wonderful and I enjoy the guitar sound, both the rhythmic chugging and the more melodic lines. Just a great melody and feel to this one. I'm a little surprised that it wasn't included as a bonus track on one of the Deluxe Editions. I assume that it was at least considered for use on Woodface along with the rest of that amazing vein of brilliant songs the brothers mined during these demo sessions in late '89.

4.0/5

If I recall, wasn't the Murchison Street flat that Neil bought located just a couple of doors away from the Victorian mansion he bought? The one with the cupola and all of the wild gardens that they show on the EPK for Woodface? Seems like they only lived there for a few years before moving to NZ. If I remember, Nick also lived on that same street, but in the other direction and down several houses.

Someday when I visit Melbourne, I'll have to visit Murchison Street to pay tribute to whatever was in the air back then that helped to birth so many of my favorite songs.