Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

The lyric and melody is Tim's job and I think both are actually quite good.

The album explores various Latin American themes; the lyric about the secret wars in Latin America was very timely back then, and was kind of just coming to light in pop culture. (Though released in 1990, the album was recorded in 1988 or earlier.) I tend to think that Tim (and Neil) explore personal themes better than they do political themes, but this lyric treads just lightly enough that it doesn't bother me, and it fits Manzanera's vision.

The production is really squarely of its time-- it's nearly all Phil Manzanera, recording with a bassist and a percussionist and the backing vocalists.. AS drum machine tracks go, (and producers Manzanera and Keith Bessey employ them all over this album) this is one of the more realistic sounding ones...certainly the production does not grate as bad as Nick Launay's did on Big Canoe!

I've grown to like the album recently but, basically, I agree with with what @HitAndRun says. The album does sound a bit like a missing link between Big Canoe and Tim Finn, which, actually, it kind of is, even though it was released after Tim Finn.

I think a Tim lead vocal would have improved this. I don't find Dyson's voice to have much character at all, though he is certainly a muscular and technically proficient fake-soul singer -- certainly the voice does not have as much character as Tim's voice has (or Paul Carrack's, for that matter if we are bringing up Mike+the Mechanics. Mike + the Mechanics actually occurred to me, too: I think it's the "It's easy to ignore the children" line.)

I'll give the song a 3.1/5

 

I agree with @Lance LaSalle that a Tim vocal would have improved this. From my point of view. Gary Dyson fans would probably much prefer it as it is.

On my cycle ride into work, I had the song stuck in my head for a while. Until I ejected it by thinking of my favourite Manzanera songs. I particularly like Listen Now. I hope people don't mind me posting these songs, but as I will be criticising songs on 'Southern Cross', I would like to point out how much I like some other Manzanera music. Here is my favourite Manzanera song.

 

And here is my favourite Phil Manzanera song with obvious Finn involvement, being a lead vocal by Tim and a background vocal by 'Neal Finn'.



I say 'obvious' Finn involvement as I think Tim has a background vocals credit on the Listen Now album, but I don't know which songs and TBH I haven't really been able to hear where Tim appears.

Both of these songs would be way up in the 4's near to 5 for me.

EDIT: BTW: I think everyone who hasn't heard it (if there is anyone who hasn't heard it) must also hear 'Hot Spot' which is Tim singing a disco song with 10CC backing vocals, and it massively works.

 

Oh what the heck. Here it is. Lance will tell me off for flooding the thread, and I will reply 'mea culpa'.

 

Eddie Rayner also plays piano on “Slow Motion TV.”

 

Minor correction here: Schnell Fenster's second album "OK Alright A Huh Oh Yeah" wasn't released in 1990 though it incorrectly says so on the LP and the CD. The release date was 24th June 1991. At the time, there was one fan club for Crowded House / Tim Finn / Finn Brothers and a separate fan club for Schnell Fenster / The Makers. Both fan clubs were run by Peter Green and I was a member of both. The "OK Alright A Huh Oh Yeah" single was released (on 7", 12" and CD single) in October 1990 and record company policy at the time would have dictated that an album was ready to go when its first single was released. Record companies see singles as "trailers" for the album, which is what they earn the real money from, and they need to have the album ready to release if the first single is a hit. In Schnell Fenster's case, the first single wasn't a hit so the album was delayed until June 1991. If you want to be a bit cynical, one might think that Schnell Fenster's record company (WEA) wanted to issue their album at the same time as "Woodface" (which was released on 26th June 1991 in Europe and on 2nd Juky 1991 in Australia), perhaps hoping for joint reviews and no doubt being aware that Tim joining Crowded House would make the Split Enz angle obvious for the media and it might make media interested in what the other ex-Enz people were up to. Also, the soundtrack album for the movie "Death in Brunswick" was released in 1991 with its score written by Phil Judd, so they could get some media interest from that too. In the end, it didn't make any big difference as the second Schnell Fenster album sold even less than the first one and was never issued outside Australia and New Zealand.

Curiously, the first Schnell Fenster album "The Sound of Trees" was originally released in Australia and New Zealand by EMI in 1988. They were then dropped by EMI and picked up by WEA - not for the next album, but for "The Sound of Trees" which was re-issued in Australia and released internationally by WEA in 1990.

 

I have two Tim articles from 1989 in which Southern Cross is referenced. The first is from the U.S. edition of Rolling Stone, edition #554, June 1989. In this article (by Michael Azerrad) it says, "A big salsa fan, Finn recently collaborated with former Roxy Music guitarist Phil Manzanera on a Latin-oriented project called Orquestra Luna, and he'll soon make a record with Neil - just 'acoustic guitars and a lot of harmonies'. Finn is banking on that kind of diversity to help him continue to grow as a writer and a performer."

The other article is from the Australian edition of Rolling Stone. In this much longer article (by Toby Creswell), Tim says: "I cast around to a certain extent. I went to South America because I fell in love with the music and I went to Cuba for the same reason. I expected that those things would inform this album [Tim Finn], but in fact it hasn't really. We did use a percussion player called Alex Acuna who comes from Peru who used to play with Weather Report. He's a brilliant percussionist. It's not as though the album is full of Latin rhythms, there's little hints of it. But it actually informed another album that I did with Phil Manzanera that we haven't finished yet. Phil's from Venezuela and he lived in Cuba up until the revolution and he and I have done an album of songs, almost an album we did about eight or nine [tracks] and we'll finish it later in the year, and it's full of Latin rhythms. I did melodies and lyrics and he did a lot of the rhythm ideas. All those things affect each other."

I haven't read any articles where Tim discusses this album after it was released in 1990 and it wasn't mentioned at all in any fan club newsletter at the time.

Curiously, Mike Chunn's book about Split Enz doesn't even mention that Tim, Neil and Eddie appeared on Manzanera albums in 1977/78. On the Listen Now album from 1977, Tim sings backing vocals and Eddie plays keyboards which may not have been interesting enough, but on the K-Scope album from 1978, Tim sings lead vocals on four tracks, Neil sings backing vocals and Eddie plays keyboards on several tracks.
In Chris Bourke's book there is no mention of the Southern Cross album either. I find it a bit strange that neither of the major books chronicling the Finns' musical history even mentions these collaborations.

 

Yes my tellings off have become the stuff of legend I see.

Good point, but not trying to sneer at Dyson...but does he have fans? I mean he's a talented singer to be sure, but what other projects has been involved with? Serious question because when I look him up on all-music his only credits seem to be on this album. Is he part of some other group or does he often work with Manzanera. I'm kind of fascinated (at the moment -- it will pass) by this guy.

 

I am quite fond of the "Southern Cross" album, or at least my own mini album version of it - the tracks involving Tim plus "Guantanamera" and the instrumental title track, plus "Fifth Wheel". On our commutes by car to and from work, my wife and I have had various "listening marathons" where we've listened to all albums, in chronological order, by selected artists, one album per day. My wife actually suggested we do an "Split Enz and all related" listening marathon. When we reached "Southern Cross" (or, rather, my mini album version of it) I said, "Imagine us on a holiday in Havana and we go to a club or a restaurant to hear a local band for which Tim will appear as one of the guest singers - not performing Split Enz or solo songs but songs written especially for this concert". I like to think of the album that way (neither of us have been to Cuba, so our images of Havana is based on movies we've seen).
In such a scenario, "A Million Reasons Why" would probably be a song that would be playing as we get seated and start looking at the menu, a bit of slightly bland background music. I think the actual song is okay, but Gary Dyson's voice is so unremarkable and anonymous. I can imagine how it would sound if Tim sang lead vocals and it would give the song a lot more personality and character.
Such as it is, I think it's the weakest song on the album. I give it 2/5.

 

This one, despite the talent of the people involved, sounds a bit like a spoof of this type of song. It sails dangerously close to parody and I can't really take it seriously.

2/5.

 

Thanks to the kindness of strangers (ok, not really strangers) I'll be able to keep up with this part of the festivities...

I have to agree with the notion that this is almost a spoof... It could be that I'm so used to Tim's voice, but this sounds to my ears like someone trying really hard to sound like Tim singing a song that would be effortless for him. It also feels, again, to my ears and maybe not the rest of the world, overproduced to the hilt. I'm very keen to give the rest of this a listen and see if this is an isolated feeling or if it pervades the entire work.

As much as I generally enjoy Finn-related stuff, I just don't see myself coming back to this tune much at all. a rare 2/5 from me.

 

I was going to post 'Imagine what his mother would think if she saw this thread', but decided not to.

Maybe this "Gary Azukx Dyson" is the same person. In my opinion, there is far, far, more interesting music on his Bandcamp site than the Manzanera collaboration above. From a quick sampling. If this is the same Gary Dyson, then it appears that he has found his unique voice.

E.g. this song: Father to Son, by Gary Azukx Dyson 格里．阿祖克斯．戴森

EDIT: Very much appears to be the same guy. He has played with the Phil Manzanera band. AZukx Trance and Ambient Music

 

I agree, that's the same guy. And yeah, his music is nice.

 

We'll take it song-by-song, of course, but I think the whole album is a bit what people call "Overproduced." (I've never liked that term: I don't really understand it. But it's very much that late eighties, glossy, po'-faced adult rock stuff that has been so dreadfully out of style for, well, since the minute it came out.)
However, I think some of the songs are better than this; there is one I love. While others are about the same.

 

I can’t take this music seriously. What a waste of 3 minutes listening to that song.

1 / 5

 

This is my first time hearing the Tim collaborations on Phil Manzanera's Southern Cross album. I had always considered these songs to belong to Manzanera rather than to Tim and so I never acquired them for my Finn collection. Based on "A Million Reasons Why", I can't say that I feel I've missed out. The lyrics are somewhat interesting but they lose their effectiveness when married to such unremarkable music and lead vocals. I think there's a decent melody in there but the arrangement and production bury it. This isn't one I'll be returning to.

2.7/5

 

"A Million Reasons Why." Hmm. Parts of it are an undeniable ear worm--the chorus was stuck in my head for awhile this morning. On the other hand, leaving the subject of the lyrics aside, it is an extraordinarily generic late-'80s song with little to recommend it. I agree that the lead vocals are bland.

I suppose I'm glad I heard this as a Finn-related curiosity, but I don't see myself listening to it again. When I want to hear Tim Finn songs, I'll listen to Tim Finn.

2/5

 

Speaking of generic, The Makers album is much the same type of stuff; whereas the Schnell Fenster album is as far from generic as possible -- too far from generic, if anything.

 

Heroes Let You Down' is for me a surefire hit song. I don't understand exactly what happened to stop it, in Australasia at least. Including why the second album was not finished. At least, some of the songs sound like demos to me. Does anyone have a good idea of what happened?

 

It wasn't finished? What do you mean?

I've only recently acquired OK Uh Huh All Right Oh Yeah, so I'm not too familiar with it other than the title track, which was on Other Enz which I bought nearly 20 years ago.

Listening to "Heroes Get You Down" right now.

It's a solid little funk song, pretty catchy chorus. Not as catchy as "A Million Reasons Why", but not nearly as generic either.

Phil Judd's lyrics are always excellent..his singing...well, he's no Gary Dyson.

 

Some of the tracks only feature Judd and Den Elzen, I believe. These sound a bit like demos to me, with simple drum machine tracks. Heroes Let You Down is one of the tracks attributed to the whole band and it sounds like Nigel and Noel are on it. But, some of the other tracks don't sound like that. I thought some tracks have drum machines.

However, this is something I remember reading years ago, and I can't find a source that says the same thing. So, I may simply have this wrong. In fact, the more I listen to the tracks and search to see if I can find a reference, the more I think I have it wrong.

 

A New Kind of Blue
How popular were The Models outside of Australia?
This feels like one of their album tracks. That sort of non-hook chorus, presuming the audience would pay that kind of attention to the lyrical construct. Presuming a level of sophistication of the audience, I guess Icehouse were doing that - did Bowie's China Girl and the like enable this kind of songwriting?
The video is hilarious, probably because I'm paying attention to it. They're deliberately not playing their instruments. The director might have been more focused on the lights and the rear projection. But it's a music video, so the 0.2 second edits make up for it!

Since I'm talking videos - OK Alright A Huh Oh yeah IS A GREAT VIDEO!
Learned all the lessons from Counting the Beat with those instrument close ups. The puppetry + Phil's head, and if we're gonna assume that's Noel's big suit - he probably enjoyed making that more than playing the drums (which, from the sounds of it, were pieced together from keyboard sounds.. the RIGHT keyboard sounds - I'm sure it's a drum machine or sampler my ear doesn't recognise).
The instrumental breakdown at the end is wonderfully kitchen sink. The sentiment, even the sound, it's a shouting-at-the-world blue-rock song. Phil's three-chords and the truth. Would never play in Split Enz, works great here.
Guess I gotta look up this album!

 

Everyone has their own developed sense of "Trying too hard", that thing where other people's behaviors seem forced and over-considered, that they're not "being themselves". I get into this a lot with people, Pretension - we're sensitive to dishonesty and we over-apply it.

In the case of A Million Reasons Why, for me, it's that flute sample.
Flute? It's another instrument I'm blanking on now. But it's a specific sample.

 

Heh, that really does sum up my experience quite succinctly as well! There's just no need for recordings like that to be out there in the universe. It's sort of an utter failure on every level of 'entertainment'. Even though Manzanera is a fantastically talented musician (see examples of songs posted above by HitAndRun).

I do think that The Makers, while mining that same late-eighties smooth pop sound, were a lot better than this. Brian Baker had a really good voice that carried genuine expression in it. And the songwriting was far more successful in its execution. In spite of some of the el-cheapo Eddie horn stabs!

 

Our votes for "A Million Reasons Why":

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Average: 2.0667