Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Sorry I missed Paradise, which I love. I'm even more sorry that I have time to rate Kiss The Road to Rarotonga, which I don't love and always skip.

1/5

 

Road of Rarotonga does nothing for me, and is kind of a mess.

I’m equally amazed by how much kindness it’s getting as I am by how hard folks were on “Paradise.”

2/5

 

And I'll be there to counter them (well, most of them).

 

I really, intensely dislike "Road to Raratonga." Knowing the story behind the song makes it mildly amusing, but I can't get past the ugliness of the music. Thank goodness this wasn't the opening track. As a table-setter, it would have been a disaster. If it has to exist, it's best as a final track--I can just turn off the album after "Paradise."

A rare 1/5.

 

Kiss the Road to Rarotonga is a great way to end the album. It also would've made a great opener, IMO. I love it.
4.5/5

 

Kiss The Road -

Not every song has to be an epic masterpiece of lyric, melody and harmony. I like it for what it is. It shows depth when they stretch out like this. It's also the only time Tim really goes for it on the album, other than a line or two here and there.

3.5/5

 

... especially given how much people seemed to dislike any of the 'rockier' Crowded House tracks as being melodically-weak due to Neil getting 'shouty'. This is going to get a higher rating than the subtle, complex melody of 'Black and White Boy'? Is 'Some Dumb Reason' going to outrate 'Into Temptation'?

 

I was going to say, but forgot, that "Kiss the Road" reminds me of the goofy-but-lovable Paul Hester songs of yore.

 

Ummm.

"Black and White Boy" received 3.95 overall; a cream-of-the-crop rating. I don't think it received any ones, though it did receive a surprising (for me) amount of twos and threes

"Kiss the Road of Raratonga" is definitely NOT going to be rated higher than that. It might...might scrape an overall 3, but I doubt it. I'll see tomorrow morning when I count it up.

Why take the numbers too seriously?

As I've written repeatedly throughout the thread from the very beginning, they are only a sort of mental trick to focus the mind critically. It's not necessary to rate these songs at all and many don't.

Personally, I rated "Black and White Boy" a 5/5 so obviously I liked it better than many. (shrugs).

As I said earlier during the Altitude discussion and at the beginning of Finn, now that they are past their commercial peak of the late 80s and 90s (commercial peak: the period that most people like the most) there is going to be more disagreement and division of votes. This is already clear from the spread on these songs. The catalog is just too rich for that not to happen.

But it's been going on for the beginning and only the Neil-related songs from 1986-1993 are going to be universally loved by nearly all (and even those have exceptions): because Neil is more commercial and that was his commercial peak.

But when we say why we like or dislike a song; even when we disagree directly, we all get to see the song through the eyes of someone else and thus examine these songs more deeply. And that's surely why we are here: we are, after all, fans.

 

@StefanWq—excellent post! You covered just about everything I was going to say!

@Ryan Lux—You hit the nail right on the head. Songs don’t always have to be master classes in melody and lyric to be enjoyable. I know that the Finn’s have spoiled us in those regards over the years. But, it’s fun to hear them break out their inner “Louie Louie” every once in awhile.

3/5.

 

The first time I played Finn, I was certainly somewhat perplexed. It wasn't quite what I was expecting, at least fully. And, yes, "Kiss The Road Of Rarotonga" left an odd last impression for sure.

Over the years (decades? yeesh) though, I've developed a tolerance for this song that's grown into a sort of grudging admiration. Now, I don't love it - it's clearly not up to the level of craft and excellence that Tim and Neil have attained elsewhere in their respective careers - but I certainly don't hate it and don't think it's the worst thing either man has done, not even close. I don't understand the reason for splicing that live excerpt from a show (the ending of another song) to the beginning of what is obviously a studio recording. That aside, Tim's distorted vocal is sort of cool sounding and the title phrase imparts a sort of hypnotic rhythm. The lyrics are over the top, as Lance has said, given the reality of the incident that inspired the song. The clattering drums are very much a part of the Tchad Blake playbook (they're all over the Latin Playboys albums), so that sound didn't come as a surprise to me even back in 1995 (I had bought the first LP album on release).

On the whole, "Kiss The Road Of Rarotonga" is not my least favorite cut on the album - that honor goes to the troika of "Bullets In My Hairdo", "Niwhai", and "Paradise (Wherever You Are)", with the latter at the bottom. Instead, it ends the album on a slight up note.

2.9/5

 

Kiss the Road of Rarotonga is actually a favorite of mine. I love the distorted vocals (the megaphone effect just makes everything edgier) and Tim’s drumming. He’s not the most technical player but he attacks the kit with such force. I’m instantly reminded of Meg White, especially in the chorus where he never lets go of the cymbals.

Actually, if the guitar solo was a little bluesier, this would be a White Stripes song. I think I remember someone making that comparison on the Frenz forum too a while back.

4.5/5.

 

Our votes for "Kiss the Road of Raratonga"

1-3
2-2
3-5
4-3
5-2
Average: 2.7933

 

Today, the Finn album.

 

It's always been my second favorite album after Finn but I have to admit that this re-listening discussion project has brought home how uneven it is; and how weak the second half is (which is a recurring problem: Before and After, Crowded House, Woodface all suffer from the same problem.) I like the last three songs more than some of you, but they are all lesser songs for me than the brilliant best.

Still I think it's a great album and it is the one that really drew me in to the Finn world. If they could make this and Together Alone, I thought, they must be worth checking out. So there's a bit of nostalgia for a lost time in my feelings of the album; and the sound captures that time rather well.

But it's just got too many great songs not to rate highly: "Only Talking Sense", "Mood Swinging Man", "Last Day of JUne" "Angel's Heap" and "Where Is My Soul" are all going to be songs I'm going to jam out on until the day I die.

I do think that Neil and Tim defined themselves outside of their solo career/Crowded House/Woodface with this album, defined themselves as what they had always been, or at least what they had always wanted to be: arty craftsman of superb pop/rock that was not really too commercial but was hip. I could play the Finn Brothers to people in 1997 and no one cringed like they did when I played Crowded House.

I do like the lo-fi aesthetic, and always have -- I just wish there was a bit more space in the mastering. The singles have it. There's not a song on it that I don't like to some extent (other than Niwhai.)

I'm giving it a 4.5/5

 

I love this line.

 

By the way the Finn Brothers released four different live fan club albums from this period:

Eyes of the World
Mood Swinging Men
Kiwi Charms
Belvoir

Some songs that were released on these albums that weren't on Finn (or weren't earlier Crowded House, Tim Finn or Split Enz songs include:

An embryonic version of "King Tide" on Eyes of the World (later releaesd on Try Whistling This) Played by Neil solo on piano.
"Release Me" on Eyes of the World.
"Mary of the South Seas" from Mood Swinging
"Water Birth" from Kiwi Charms: this is a more or less complete version of "Into the Water"which was released in 2009 on North, South, East West: Anthology
An early but nearly complete "Astro" on Mood Swinging Men (Later released on Try Whistling This)
"Mary of the South Seas"on Mood Swinging Men, which we'll discuss tomorrow

Info from @Paul H

 

Not a bad album, but a lesser work in comparison with either Woodface or Everyone is Here.

There are too many under-written songs and too many occasions when there is a slight feeling of "This will do".

Three or four quality songs lift it to above average.

3.5/5.

 

I look forward to comparing your stunners with mine. No, that came out wrong

 

The Finn album was the first non-CH album involving our Neil that I bought/heard. Up until that point, Neil was a God-like genius. His ratio of stunners to songs eclipsed every other artist I'd ever heard. The man could do/had done no wrong (I'll excuse That's What I Call Love).

And then Finn came out.

Boy, what a disappointment. It opens well enough but then, at track 3, they get all loungey. And the album never manages to place two good songs back to back thereafter. It isn't the production, it isn't the playing (heck, I'm a McCartney devotee - I can get past The Plod with ease ): the songs just aren't there.

Oddly, I'm more disappointed now than I was then. Back in 1995 I just shrugged it off: Neil's allowed to make the odd album that misses the mark, surely. But now, seeing that the opportunity for the brothers to make records as good as Woodface and Everyone is Here appears to be falling away, I feel frustrated that they dropped the ball when they did have a chance.

With greater knowledge of the album's backstory, I can see that it has to exist: Neil clearly felt very guilty about causing Tim to give up what would have been a classic album to Crowded House. It was that band who took the plaudits for the songs/recordings the Finn Brothers had made and it was their career that got the boost. Of course, Tim's departure from the band also left a wound (albeit perhaps "only a flesh wound") and Neil clearly felt the need to quickly return to Tim to patch things up before it festered. Offering Tim the chance to make a joint album was a way of easing Neil's guilt and restoring a working relationship with his brother.

I can see that once Neil had had the thought to make that joint album (finally) it was easy to push it a little further ("hey, why not make it a real Finn Brothers album? Let's play all the instruments, rather than getting others in?"). This would make Tim feel even more needed: rather than just being the singer, suddenly, Tim was a real part of the band - something, of course, that he'd failed achieve in Crowded House.

All of this would have been well and good had they had the liberty of having enough time to pull together a real collection of quality songs. The ease with which the Woodface songs had been written had clearly given them the sense that they didn't need a lot of time to rattle off a set of classics but alas, lightning didn't strike twice. Suggesting that the project be put on hold so that they could work on more songs clearly wasn't an option - they didn't have much space in their schedules and pausing the album in order to return to it after another CH go-round would be rejecting Tim for a second time and would only make matters worse. But the speed with which the songs were written, and the desire to go for as DIY an approach as possible, really shone a torch on the paucity of material they had.

For all that they defend their debut, they clearly learnt their lesson: next time round, they'd go as far as to completely scrap the album and record it afresh. If only they'd had the confidence/context to do that with Finn.

 

What about your revised running order? It’s been eleven days!

 

I'm posting at work, I'll get to that later this evening. Hopefully.

 

I was introduced to Neil's music by Woodface in 1993 and then having bought CH and TOLM it was only a few months to wait before Together Alone came out, and my anticipation of that release was more than satisfied by its brilliance. Next came Finn, and my anticipation for this release was just as high as for Together Alone, but I was so disappointed. I tried to make the best of it by concentrating on the positives - the 3 brilliant songs Only Talking Sense, Last Day Of June, Angels Heap - but unfortunately there are many more negatives for me:

- none of the other songs come close to my 'big 3', whereas on all other Neil albums (except Pajama Club) there are brilliant songs but also some just below that level to enjoy in between them. Not here.

- the harmonies are not as good as either Woodface or Everyone Is Here, due to Tim's voice issues at this time. While he could get away with it messing about on Altitude and choose to sing in a different style on Say It Is So and Feeding The Gods (to good effect) it is more of an impediment here with Neil having to sing the high part when occasionally they do try for harmonies; mostly though, Neil does the bulk of the singing, not that I mind this as Neil's voice was wonderful at that time but harmonies would have been even better.

- the lo-fi production is not as much of an issue for me as some other people here, or rather it wouldn't have been if the songs had been better, because it doesn't bother me on my 'big 3' songs, but it does bother me on the lesser songs, for some reason making them seem unfinished or rushed when probably the truth is they are just not great songs in the first place and would never be improved by a different production style.

So I never really play Finn as an album, instead I just put my 'big 3' songs into playlists and pretty much ignore the rest (except when they appear on live albums).

3/5 (1 for each of my big 3)

 

I will join the chorus by saying that I considered Finn a disappointment on release. It's grown a bit in my estimation over the years, but I still find it the weakest Finn album since Big Canoe. The quality of the material takes a nose dive on the album's second half, which is the first time I can think of that happening (other than See Ya 'Round, where it was somewhat intentional at least, or perhaps Before & After) on an album we've covered in this thread.

We're about to move into a Neil-dominated run, as he produced the equivalent of a fifth CH album and a solo album (plus two CH compilations) before Tim's next album would appear in 1999. After that, Tim would become more prolific. The mid-90s appear to have been something of a "time out" period for him with respect to his career as a solo act.

Overall for Finn, a 3.4/5.