Strictly for fans of Audio Note UK (all things Audio Note UK) PART TWO

Well that was an exercise in frustration. I think you went in hoping for answers and actually came out with more questions. I’m not surprised though given the cost and possibilities.
You are right about the Tomei, I’ve heard it before in a set up but using an M5 Phono as the Pre and Mario had it singing on the Saturday and then removed all his secret bits and reset it for Andy to demo the second day and it sounded maybe 2/3rds as good. Goes to show you the key ingredient in high end audio is having someone who knows how to get it to sing. It didn’t sound bad the second day, it was just not as magical as it had been.
The TT3 needs wall mounting unless you have concrete flooring and that may explain the noise you experienced.
It’s entirely feasible to use the M6 with the Tomei Kensei and get a fantastic sound, I use an M6 Phono with an Ongaku Kensei and it doesn’t sound too shabby. Maybe one day I will get an 8 and match the Levels. It will sound better than the 6, that I know already.
Also with this level of equipment, buy yourself a big shovel as the hole you are about to dig is going to be a lot bigger once someone starts “showing “ you the cables that can be used with this gear. There is a reason why Sogon and Sootto exist and it ain’t for the feint hearted.
Enjoy the ride.

 

Finn,

Thank you. All I can say is please don't swear at me like this:

"There is a reason why Sogon and Sootto exist and it ain’t for the feint hearted. "



I don't need to hear about such horrible things that will leave me eating bread and water. That said I could do with losing. few KG... See I'm already rationalising it.

Thank you

Jenny

 

I too, thought of posting a glib response like, "just buy Sootto and be done with it," but that probably is not the case. Somewhere in this thread (I believe) is Salectric's very detailed explanation of a circumstance where a cheaper AN cable outperformed Sogon IN A PARTICULAR circumstance. My local dealer builds some very pricey custom horn-based speaker systems. In one particularly high end model, I noticed that the wiring between the drivers and the crossover was not Sogon, and I joked that the dealer was getting cheap with his builds. I was informed that Sogon was actually tried in this particular system, but, the cheaper wiring (some other silver AN wire) sounded better.

My own speakers are hooked up to my amp with Sogon speaker wires, and my long 4 meter run of interconnect to my amps is Sogon interconnect wire. I am a fan of AN wires. Some day, I might improve the internal wiring of my speakers with AN wire (most likely Sogon), but, that could be pricey because it is a somewhat big horn-based system where long runs of wire are needed.

 

I am sorry to report that the hole is now deeper.

I had the chance to compare Vx-31, Sogon and the new Black Pallas II cables between the DAC and the Amp. The Pallas out performed the other 2 by a lot more than I expected. Especially listening to strings (piano, harpsichord, and acoustic guitar). Cleaner and more enjoyable. OK, not cheap, but it needs to be auditioned if you are thinking about cables.

 

I wonder when Black Pallas III will be released?

 

Interesting. I thought the Pallas line of cables were for digital transmission, being of low capacitance. Doesn't mean they won't work between dac and amp. I'm using the previous incarnation of the Brown Pallas cable between CDT One/MKll and Dac 2.1x Signature.

https://www.audionote.in/product-page/black-pallas-ii-digital

 

That was my impression, too. But, the cables are not marked digital (as in the link you posted), and one is red banded and the other black, so... And they sound amazing.

 

AN we’re happy with the original Pallas and circumstances forced them into a new version. Given the current manufacturing issues and production times, they will perfectly content with what they have already.

 

They are sold as stereo interconnects in the current price list as well as single digital interconnects so AN certainly sees them as part of their conventional cable lineup. I have to put some on order and try them out, I’m still using the original versions.

 

But the good news is the M6 and Tomei are going to pack themselves into boxes and scamper from the frozen north of England to the midlands, much like migratory birds seeking winter warmth. I'm not sure when this migration flight will take place, but I'm very excited to say I know where they will be landing. Super exciting.

I've always been a cable sceptic, but I sense that I'm reaching a point where I need to change my bias.

 

Sootto and Black PallasII are a comparative price match for stereo interconnects so that would be very interesting ( I can’t believe I just wrote that...) to compare.

 

Welcome to the very dark side....
Bias.... ?


.

 

for anyone interested in further thoughts on the setup (approximately perhaps) @Jennifer_F is talking about i found this review Audio Note Tomei Kensei and M6 - Fidelity Magazine

 

Meishu Tonmeister and Meishu Tonmeister Silver Signature review.

Audio Note Meishu Tonmeister Silver Signature

 

Finn,

My bias being that I've always been a cable cynic. But I think they are something I see as snake oil in many of the main stream products, or historically tone controls. I've also never been a big fan of hifi shops. I tend to keep things for some time and never go near hifi shops / read the mags. Without wishing to be rude, the majority of shops are man caves. The Jinro presented a profound level of musical engagement from the old world of Linn / naim and I'm in position where the with the ongoing house renovation I want to get the hifi "right". A bit challenge is accommodating some this kit as these size and heat requires a degree of planning. Cables are a serious challenge in that ideally I want 10m speaker cables...... which in AN land is beyond eye watering. So the question is whether I can get the room harmony I want in other ways of setting the room up. But rest assured in know that a serious loom is required.

 

This is exactly the setup that I heard, and whilst I may not have been as effusive and have some concerns please do not misinterpret my words, this is one hell of an amplification package.

 

@Jennifer_F i related to your review where u said "For me the key differences.
1. Tonality, so much more tonal colour richness in instruments and voices, for want of a better word, really beautiful a top to bottom cohesion that I didn't know was missing on the Jinro but hearing once heard can't be unheard"

i identified with the "tonality" observation based on my recent hearing of m6. besides dynamics (which was your #2) this is the key thing i hear in the m6 that i have not heard before in my setup. i presume you heard even more of it of course given silver on the Tomei Transformers.

Kondo the guy who designed the ongaku said the real "ah-ha" moment was when he used silver on the Transformers. i reckon the m6 riaa i have brings a touch of that and i can only presume the setup you heard had it in spades

 

You are going to have Tomei Kensei? If you could have that close to (or between) your speakers, then longer interconnect pair from pre-amp wouldn't cost as much as speaker cables.

 

And on the other end of the Audio Note spectrum: review of the I-Zero amplifier. Interestingly, there is a common theme in all these reviews, described as an emotional connection to the music.

 

I’m the wrong person to talk to about cable, I long ago assumed that the wiring harness was just another component and it demanded the same respect and consideration as a Pre amp or source or speakers. I used to terminate years ago many various cables for different importers here and would audition everything that passed over my workbench and So built up a bank of knowledge as to construction designs, material profiles, dielectric behaviour’s, insulation characteristics, differences in solder types, connector performance and now for myself, terminating a pair of interconnects takes about 8 hours of concentration in order to realise all of that potential. I really need to get out more...
Richidi presented an idea of using longer interconnects and shorter speaker leads which was how I approached the set up I chose. The balanced outputs of the M6 will drive the cables no problem, I’m using a 7 mtr Sogon 50 into the Ongaku Kensei and the dynamic structure is maintained.
I’m sure your dealer involved in the process will advise you respectfully in how to approach acquiring the right cable, be it new or a trade in. Getting the best sounding cable components takes time and funds and generally involves horse trading , trying lots of things and hearing what is possible and then buying it piece by piece. For the past 3 years, I have one client who buys a Sootto mains lead with his tax refund cheque and next July will be the last his system requires. He set an objective and he absolutely loves the changes wrought and his determination. He looks at it as a reward for the effort put in and has a lot of fun with it, especially when I get a perfect length cable traded in.
I’m sure you will get it right.

 

Finn,
The thing is... Rome wasn't built in a day. Whilst M6 Tomei may need to be a simultaneous purchase to step up from Jinro. Cables can come a few months or a year later. They are the icing on the cake. Sometimes patience is a virtue although many would choke on their coffee hearing me say that.

 

Just to close the loop on my AN speaker cable demo....

I spent some additional time with the SPe over the past week or so. The more I listened to them, the more I started to prefer the sound of the SPe compared to the Lexus. At the end of the day, it came down to a preference between the "fullness" of the Lexus LX and the "definition" of the SPe.

I did not feel like the bass was missing from the SPe at all compared to the Lexus, instead it was more resolved. I do think there is a bit more detail to the SPe, and importantly I didn't find the top-end to sound bright (I listen to a lot of jazz and am sensitive to the "shoutiness" of trumpets in particular).

I had some gear available to trade in, so I didn't really bring price into the equation - I really just wanted to get what felt and sounded "right" to me. Both cables I found very engaging and enjoyable. I think one can't go wrong with either Lexus LX or SPe - just a matter of taste.

I ended up going with a single run of SPe at the end of the day. I'll be adding some SPx jumpers as well. Buy once, cry once.

I absolutely love my setup - I've been listening to music for hours every night. That is what its all about.

Thanks to everyone in the thread for help. Particularly @R.T.Firefly for encouraging me not to jump to conclusions - sounds like I arrived at a similar conclusion as you did.

 

This reinforces and sums up my thoughts, I’m 100hrs or so in after adding single run SPe v bi wire Lexus and ANVx replacing ISIS, at the beginning miss the fullness/warmth and in my case my whole system was really “singing” so this was a leap of faith. The improvements are resolution, detail and “realness”? which more than makes up for the initial perceived lack of fullness/warmth. I detect more to come from the system once we break 200hrs or so - bring it on!

 

Quick question as I am testing speaker cables and jumpers this weekend. Is it safe to swap while my Oto is on? I know the ideal is to swap when the amp is off but than to I lose a lot of time between the listens as I need to wait for the cool off a bit and than for the amp to warm up again

 

I always power off my amps before disconnecting and connecting cables.

If the amps are already warm, then I never hesitate to continue listening after a brief cable swap.

Some believe cables need to settle in before evaluating them. The argument in favor of this that makes most sense to me is that a cable’s dialectic material needs to reach equilibrium. How much time is required is open to debate.

This is simply my procedure. I’m not claiming it’s the best procedure, or correct for everyone.