Strictly for fans of Audio Note UK (all things Audio Note UK) PART TWO

I envy you. Just in the beginning of building an AN system! You have so much to look forward to.

I think Peter is just polite, Meishu Tonmeister SS deserves the AN-E Alnico SPX. I agree with mentioned importance of the source, but still go first for the best AN-E you can go for with that amp.

 

@Dewie

my recommendations
1. get an etheREGEN. reduces noise in digital. huge upgrade over stock. cheap
2. speakers AN HE Spe - amazing speakers. spending more on this now not necessary
3. meishu is gr8 and you are right silver signature is level 4 (ish). however if amp is silver sig then everything up front needs to be silver to get best out of it as well as speaker cables (ideally). expensive. do you want this?
4. don't overspend on digital streamer. tech changing all the time. i have spent tens of thousands and i now listen to a cambridge cnx2 (cheap). with noise taken care of, cheap streamers sound amazing (EhteREGEN does that for you)
5. AN dacs sound great at whatever level. don't kill yourself budget wise.

summary - get listening to music pronto - life is not guaranteed
1. meishu std is enough
2. he spe is enough
3. ISIS speaker cable single strand is enough
4. best ICs u can afford
5. best PCs u can afford.

take advantage of relationship with dealer to spend next two years trying out cables. but get key system elements in place and start listening to music!

 

also just for the record your dealer is right about analogue. you can def have great digital (lumin or no lumin). but oh boy the stuff they press onto these records!

 

With due respect to our good friend @SetANE, a contributing reason to why his analog may sound better than his streaming digital is the cambridge cnx2 streamer. An unquestionably competent streamer, particularly when modified by someone like Dan Wright.

Just as in a top analog front end, where quality of every aspect contributes - table, arm, cartridge, phono preamp, cabling, vibration control - so too everything matters in digital playback.

Certainly, dollars invested in his analog front end far exceed the cambridge cnx2 and etherREGEN, and I imagine the results mirror the expense.

Understandable priorities, though. Understood.

I encourage anyone interested in maximizing their digital streaming front end to allocate similar dollars to what one invests in an analog front end.

I have done a marginally deep dive into mid-level audiophile digital streaming (not to Taiko or Wadax levels, but substantial nevertheless): Antipodes, Rockna, Lumin, Innuos, Small Green Computer. Realism, three dimensionality, dynamics and tone improve as one invests in better components. Noise level drops, and that’s everything really.

Just as for a vinyl front end.

To each his own regarding analog and digital playback.

Let’s endeavor to compare apples-to-apples, though.

Kumba-ya.

 

I think the biggest drawback for digital streaming has been the dealer demonstrations. The standard was to go to a dealer - listen to an AN CD player vs a Linn, a Naim, a Meridian - listen to all three and how the Audio Note would annihilate those other CD players and do it for half the price. You then became a fan of Audio Note! Simple.

The problem with streaming is that I go to an audio show and a CEC transport or AN transport with an AN DAC for $5k or various turntables are thumping dCS, Bricasti, Naim, MSB, at $20k+.

For many of the old-school audiophiles - we want to hear it "demonstrated" to be superior before we spend the cash. And if a good dealer can't figure out how to get these things to sound any good - what shot does the no IT expert audiophile have of getting it to sound better? Perhaps there is a business idea here to make one box all in computer audio solution for those non-IT expert audiophiles. A plug-and-play solution without excuses that you ran the wrong windows platform or the wrong media player software or the wrong hard drive etc. Someone needs to build a complete plug-and-play one/two at most box solution. I just don't get why rooms at shows with a CD player or turntable keep beating them to death over and over. Do none of the dealers/importers know how to set this stuff up? Even Acapella/Audio Federation - their computer-based sound was considerably inferior compared to CD. It saps my motivation to explore it deeply.

 

Digital steamer is the weak spot in an all Audio Note system, If you don’t have a huge LP or CD collection and spend most time listening to steaming music, You need to get or DIY the best streamer you can. I did a detailed intro into my streaming system on this forum

 

Best integrated he has heard? Come on, he must never listened to an AN amp before. Meishu base model is just sitting in the lower middle of the product line up. The bottom of the Level 3(Meishu, Meishu Silver, Meishu SS). These reviewers always like to exaggerate things or have never listened to a really good system.

 

You highlight a problem I have with audio shows in general, which is difficulty discerning what a particular component contributes to a system's sound where nearly every component is unfamiliar. It's impossible in my opinion.

For example, I suspect many of the rooms you have heard with dCS, Bricasti, Naim, MSB, etc. have systems with speakers and components that are unfamiliar, or are not familiar assembled as they are. Is it possible to determine how an unfamiliar system's sound quality is affected by a dCS DAC? A Bricasti DAC? A model "x" streamer? Perhaps as a reviewer, it's possible for you. For me and most hobbyists, I'm dubious.

Furthermore, if those systems skew toward the sound I hear from 95% of rooms at shows, then they have little relation to sound qualities of Audio Note systems, and I imagine they are not appealing to you (or to most participants on this forum, including myself).

I have a unique perspective (I think) insofar as my system is a "Franken Note" system, comprised of Audio Note components and non-Audio Note components that combine their best elements into a realistic, enjoyable and transportive whole. This is my goal, at least.

 

Well, what is a better-integrated amp? The Meishu would rank up there since in terms of integrated amps - you have the Jinro, Tomei and Ongaku. I don't know which one Stereophile reviewed but I could live the rest of my days with the base model Meishu Tonmeister.

I can't think of an amplifier from any other manufacturer that I have heard in the last 30 years that I would say sounds better. More expensive yes but better. Man, I don't know. And the problem with the 211 amps - is you still have to buy a phono stage.

 

I don't even know why they bother measuring SET amps - everyone knows that they're going to be piss-poor compared to SS and I suppose it fuels the SS crowd to win some forum arguments or something. I have not read the review but you do raise a larger point that if the listening experience is a "best sound I have heard" moment and the measurements are not backing it up then perhaps there is something wrong with the measurements.

Consider too that this is not one Stereophile reviewer - Art Dudley on the CD 4.1x (best digital I have ever heard), Herb commented that when at PQ's home - best system he ever heard - Wes Philips Stereophile reviewer on AN System (best hi-fi system he ever heard), Peter Breuninger (Stereophile) many best sound ravings, Martin Colloms also Stereophile (highest ranked digital in audio was given to Audio Note) and now Micallef.

At some point, though it might be nice for a deeper dive into trying to map a fuller explanation as to why amps like the Meishu/Jinro sound so much better than other amps - other than "we like 2nd order distortion" - a lot of amps have second order distortion that doesn't sound nearly as good. So what is it?

 

I worry that we sometimes get confused between the old Meishu and the newer Tonmeister. I know that Atkinson was positive on the older model.

 

Thanks @SetANE, I reckon “good enough” in the world of AN really is just that. Both you and @Gjo bring up the issue of overall budget. I open this up to everyone, but how would you allocate budget to the whole system percentage-wise? Which in my case would be speakers/integrated amp/DAC/transport/cables/supplemental components (i.e. switch/clock/ddc etc.)?

 

Ok. Will check. Haven’t been there for awhile.

 

Unfortunately the EtherREGEN is out of production. And good luck finding one on the used market. But there are alternatives, only they are more expensive.

 

Which ones are good alternatives?

 

AN ownership is a double edged sword, once you buy in do you rarely ever leave, sort of like a Hotel California song. Secondly, the menu is extensive and the ability to try a tempting morsel more is a little like a Monty Python classic so be very careful. No need for a bucket but assistance is often required.
The advice you get here will be generous and reliable so read it well. I know your local dealer and he has a good ear and his advice can be relied upon.
The external x-over Signature versions are quite special and considering the components used in the x-overs, goes a long way to explaining why.
The amplifier and speakers chosen will generally form the foundation of a system that can last a lifetime and I would recommend as a starting place these take the bulk of your planned budget and as you recover over time the ability to outlay disposable income, then the artistry of assembling a truely remarkable system can come to bear around the in place foundation.
Try to have a listen to a fully loaded system even though you may not be able to afford all the extras initially but it gives you a definite path forward clearly illuminated. At least you will hear the potential possible.
Enjoy the exploration and the outcome, it will be the most wonderful music.

 

Anyone intrested on streaming should definitely take a look at HQPlayer (software, works with Roon for example). The keyword here is using the streamer as NAA (network audio adapter). Not many support that, but for example iFi Zen Streamer does. Yeah, you can do tweaks like cleaning the power and ethernet but the device feeding the DAC doesn't need to be electronically complicated. Quite the opposite tbh. No it's not plug and play (almost is though), but it's probably the best option out there for serious streaming.

 

I don't know from personal experience, but Rajiv Arora compares it to some alternatives in his review: UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Review and Comparison

 

I tried unsuccessfully for several hours last year to configure HQPlayer. It was exasperating. Exactly the kind of unfriendly user experience described by @Richard Austen.

This is coming from someone who has set up home mesh wifi, wired ethernet networking, two network switches, and a NAS.

Kudos to you and others who were successful and use HQPlayer.

I'm not opposed to trying again, but it's akin to attempting once again to walk barefoot across broken glass. It takes some mental preparation, and raises the question; why not wear shoes? LOL.

 

Look what my dealer brought to me yesterday. And yes, I find the term «Dealer» utterly correct here.

 

Beautiful! Congratulations on the addition. Is your upgraded M3 Phono driving the Jinro? If so, how are you adjusting the volume on each?

 

If there's no ambition to stream from the internet, there are boxes that have built-in storage, and it is indeed fair to compared them to a CD transport. When I started streaming (for the first many years only local streaming), my Macbook-based solutions with various boxes to convert to a relevant digital signal sounded quite a bit better than my Accustic Arts CD transport. So I don't have the same experience as you that CD transports always beat streaming. At hifi shows I tend to find that they both sound bad, probably bc of the usual show problems and bc a lot of dealers just use some standard laptop and don't even know how to optimize that. Have you heard some of the top of the line products with built in storage from e.g. Aurender?

With online streaming, the situation is different and won't ever compare to a CD transport. A CD transport basically constitutes the whole chain from reading the bits off the CD to delivering them to the DAC, whereas an online streaming solution by necessity starts outside your house, e.g. at the music provider such as Qobuz and therefore by definition can't be a one box solution. Some of the ambitious products (e.g. Taiko, Grimm, Aurender, Auralic) try to make the streamer immune to everything that comes before it, but IME the sound can always be improved by optimizing what comes before the streamer. One can choose to pursue that or not.

I think the way to view it is that if you want a one-box solution, you should go for the best you can afford (provided you like the sound, of course), just as you would with a CD transport, and then just be happy with that and ignore that you can tweak your network to improve sound. With a CD transport you also have to accept that there is better sound to be had if you have the funds to upgrade your transport. Of course, you need a dealer that knows his stuff to advice you and set up the streaming gear but that's the same with all hifi gear--all highend stuff, including AN, isn't something that you can just throw on the shelf and expect optimal performance from.

I will grant you that such a dealer may be hard to find, and so I fully understand that it saps your motivation to explore it.

 

I am a former Ether Regen owner and a current Network Acoustics Muon owner. Owned them at the same time and time marches on. The Ether Regen was a compelling value at the time of its introduction and when it was available. In my system and my application, the Muon is better in my system. I also previously owned the Aqua Linq with the full HQ Player setup boards/setup, etc and I presently own the Grimm Audio MU1. They are both excellent pieces of gear and I did not own them at the same time and therefore, I can't compare them. What I can state is that I am very pleased with the performance of my Grimm without reservation and I further believe that HQplayer made flawed digital streams sound less flawed. I'm not chasing "less flawed". Regards to all.

 

Do NOT let him bring you a PSU4. As Finn noted above, it will be "just one thin mint" more
I found each step up in power supplies to be glaringly obvious. I went from a PSU2->PSU3->PSU4. It wasn't just me, but also another member of our audiophile society that heard the comparison.

 

Absolutely gorgeous! How deep is the shelf that the Jinro is on?