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Styrene LPs...........

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Tetrack, Feb 7, 2005.

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  1. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Play it only with newish stylus with correct weight and cart alignment. It may have odd wear already and not agree with a perfect setup anyway. These are such fussy toy disposable records.
     
  2. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Hhmm. I've had a number of 'Bestway' stamped LPs (stamped name in italics, not initials) and they are definitely not styrene. Bestway stamped for London / Deram records i.e. your Procol Harum. Plus Rolling Stones, Moody Blues etc.
     
    weaselriot likes this.
  3. fortherecord

    fortherecord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Beau Brummels Vol. 1 and Vol 2. were pressed on both vinyl and Styrene. The Vol. 2 album is almost impossible to find in a vinyl pressing though. I have a stereo copy of that on styrene, which I handle very delicately.
     
    geo50000 likes this.
  4. weaselriot

    weaselriot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    My Procol Harum label was not glued, which at one time meant (to me) not styrene. I have since learned that is not always the case.

    However, Bestway is stated to have been an injection molding facility started by the guy who developed the process for styrene. Are you absolutely sure that some (or even ANY) Bestway product is pressed vinyl?

    I have seen a number of threads on styrene records confirming that some of the "rules of thumb" for identifying a styrene record vs a vinyl pressing are not 100% determinative. One is the glued vs pressed-in label, another is the tapered or rough edge vs smooth finished edge. I tried the "ding/thud" test, but on a 12" LP that may be a tougher distinction to notice. Mine did seem somewhat "hollow" or "dingy" sounding, but I am not 100% sure. I found it easier to tell the difference with small 45 rpm records.

    Does anybody else know anything about Bestway product, especially whether they also pressed vinyl? I think it is safe to say that I for one will studiously avoid buying ANY LPs with Bestway (BW) following the matrix number on the label or deadwax until I know a lot more than I do now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  5. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    I recently got a copy of Bing's Songs I Wish I Had Sung on the black and silver Decca label. I'm assuming this was a first press from 1956. This does not feel like any vinyl I've ever encountered - must be the Deccalite you speak of.

    Without thinking, I gave it a spin with my modern stylus and I have to say I was SHOCKED by how quiet the pressing was (no groove noise at all) and the sound itself was quite impressive.

    Hopefully I've not done any damage to the record as I hope to play it again. Also - what on earth should I clean it with?
     
  6. To be safe, don't use a cleaner which contains alcohol if in doubt.
    Never use a cleaner with alcohol on a shellac record. I also discovered recently that you shouldn't use an alcohol-based cleaner on plastic records, like the Philco Hip-Pocket records. It melts the grooves and/or flattens them. Luckily I had a brand new sealed copy of the record which was ruined.
     
    AppleCorp3 likes this.
  7. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    Good call. Dawn and water it is.
     
  8. lennonfan1

    lennonfan1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    baltimore maryland
    I see these wild record cleaning methods and just shake my head.
    For the last 40 odd years, all I use is hot clean water and a super clean white towel.
    wet the towel on the end quarter and apply firmly to the vinyl, spin in the direction of the groove. dry the same way using the dry end of the towel. It works as almost a steam clean method and has very little contaminates.
     
  9. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    You think warm water and some dish detergent is "wild?"

    I've never had an issue cleaning my shellac this way.
     
  10. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    If Dawn & water is considered wild how do we classify the use of Scrubbing Bubbles?! :) (oops AppleCorp3 beat me to it)
     
    AppleCorp3 likes this.
  11. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Some of my styrene pressings that haven't been ruined do sound good. But I still hate the darn things. I've replaced many with later, but still earlier pressings, or with Canadian pressings, many of which use US plates. I just don't want the hassle of having to be extra careful. :D
     
  12. lennonfan1

    lennonfan1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    baltimore maryland
    not you, I'm talking about the wood glue solvent crowd:)
    ...but personally I wouldn't use soap unless you get a true spotless rinse, but to each his own.
     
    AppleCorp3 likes this.
  13. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    Wood glue scares me! No way.

    Good tip though about residue.
     
  14. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa Play that fast thing one more time

    Location:
    Dayton Ohio
    I saw a Transition sampler for $10 the other day and almost bought it. The jacket was split and the labels had completely fallen off the record. I passed but it looked like it would play well.
     
  15. Rad Dudeski

    Rad Dudeski Why are these words under my name?

    Location:
    WVa
    I learned the hard way with the MicroLine/Ridge stylus shape. I didn't know about this at the time. It does as you said basically cuts a new groove in the record. Whats really odd though is When I played it back with my Line Contact or Elliptical shape stylus it didn't have the swish sound associated with the other stylus.
     
  16. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    It appears that not all styrene records are the same groove properties. The material is delicate and then the type of master cutting - can be risky with some stylus tips, not every styrene record responds so horrible. Then as I said, previous wear can mean a bad messy result with one more play.
     
  17. Wally Swift

    Wally Swift Yo-Yoing where I will...

    Location:
    Brooklyn New York
    In the early 70's my friend's dad saw a whole shelf of Transitions in a back room of a mom and pop shop in Harlem. Not being entirely sure what they were he didn't buy any. The next day he found out what they were and a day or two after that he went back to get them. They were all gone.
     
  18. HOT clean water???? OMG ! One time, intending to use warm rinse water, it accidentally got too hot and the record warped in my hands!
    There are 4 ingredients common to many record cleaning solutions, distilled water, alcohol, Dawn dishwashing detergent and Kodak Photo-flo.
    If you can smell alcohol, the solution has alcohol in it.
    If the solution has a blue tint and smells like Dawn dishwashing detergent, that's in it too.
     
  19. One indication of a styrene record is that the labels are glued on. Also, when a the label information is actually inked directly onto the record itself, then it is probably styrene.
     
    aoxomoxoa and eddiel like this.
  20. All styrene records do have the same groove properties. Styrene records are stiff and can be broken easily if slightly bent. A styrene record groove can be easily damaged if played with a damaged stylus. Also, styrene records tend to wear faster and the heavier the tracking force the shorter the life of a styrene record will be.
    The way a master is cut has nothing to do with the type of material that the records made from it are. Typically, a styrene record is an injection molding process and not often conventionally pressed. The labels are glued on after the fact. Whereas, with a vinyl record, the labels are pressed onto the record as it is being pressed, so no glue or extra process is necessary.
     
  21. lennonfan1

    lennonfan1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    baltimore maryland
    not boiling hot, just much hotter than lukewarm.
     
  22. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    No you are wrong about the grooves. It does depend on who mastered it and what they were going for. Different properties. The grooves can be delicate and be ruined with micro Lin, or hood up rather well. I have a 45 of "Angie" by the Stones. It's a different kind of groove, it's held up really amazingly well over the last 40 years. No crackle wear.
     
  23. No. I wasn't talking about boiling hot, I was talking about faucet hot. Using an enzyme cleaner, warm water helps accelerate it and you would never want to rinse a record with anything over 100 degrees F. If it is much hotter than that, you risk warping vinyl and I've had shellac 78's crack if it's too warm.
     
  24. bRETT

    bRETT Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I have a few albums on Spin-r-Rama, the late 60s supermarket label that packaged prehistoric demos by artists (Four Seasons, Bobby Rydell, Isley Brothers) as though they were current recordings. Pretty sure those are styrene.
     
  25. I guess that I'm not understanding what you mean about the grooves being different. I have both styrene and vinyl copies of "Angie", RS-19105. The styrene copy was made by Monarch and the vinyl was made by Specialty. Both were produced from the same lacquer master disc. To the touch, the styrene has a rougher surface, but that is due to the injection molding process.
    Generally, I've never had a problem playing a styrene record with any type of modern stylus. On one of my jukeboxes, somebody had installed a Shure Mirco Ridge stylus. After many plays, I never had any wear issues with styrene or vinyl records. I did replace it after a few years with a more conventional Shure diamond conical stylus.
    The proper stylus type to use on any 45's, especially mono, is the conical type. Commercially speaking, the conical type will have much less record wear over time. Traditionally, radio stations used a conical stylus due to it's non-directional nature. Any other type of stylus or a worn conical stylus will damage any record, especially styrene, from back-cueing. In the late 70's to early 80's, when radio stations started using other turntables non-commercial turntables, like Technics, they also started using elliptical styli, which gave better sound reproduction on FM stereo. Especially styrene 45's suffered cue-burn damage because of this.
     
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