Sutherland 20/20 Phono Pre- Why it Sounds so Good?

Yes, will give that a shot although he didn't respond to my last e-mail - I'll post back his feedback should I hear...

 

Did you e-mail or pm him?

He responded to this thread back on page 6.

 

I had personally e-mailed him but yes, he did then respond on this thread which essentially addressed my reach out.

 

The product is guaranteed from defects or failing under normal use for as long as we are in business and I am able to work. Yes there is a large mount of filtering but starting off with a better source will ultimately provide better results. The measurements are in the area of "you have to hear it for yourself." Just like with most small changes in high-end audio. I think you will find appreciable improvement depending on your system. Chad

 

Thanks Chad. Long may your business run and you are able to keep healthy and work on these additions for us, to what is already a great phono stage

Looking forward to receiving my unit later in the week and will look to provide some feedback in the coming weeks!

 

I am actually considering the 20/20 as an upgrade to my current integrated phono stage. As far as I know, my SS is fully discrete, and currently I am not utilizing any opamps because they are bypassed via relays when the bass/treble/balance knobs are in the neutral positions. In the price range of the 20/20 are opamps standard? Are there any other phono stages I should consider in this price range that are not utilizing opamps?

 

Anybody ever compare the 20/20 and the JC3 Jr.? I'm thinking about trying out some MC with my DP60-L/Ortofon Bronze/JC3 Jr.

 

Not intended as an argument for or against opamps in phono preamps, but there are many discrete solid state phono preamps out there in most price ranges, below is a list of a few we have talked about around here that range from about $300 to over $4000 retail price, most fully discrete designs, but a couple that use a DC servo opamp to control the DC offset on output ...

Rothwell Simplex/Rialto

Musical Surroundings Phonomena/Nova

ELAC Alchemy PPA-2 (and predecessor Audio Alchemy PPA-1)

Rega Aria

Whest Two/Three

Benz Micro PP-1 (MC only)

Atoll PH 100

Ayre P-5xe

Pass Labs XP-15

 

PH16

 

Anymore feedback on the 20/20 dual linear power supply?

 

You might hit up Tom Littlefield or Vinbob a few posts above this. They might not have notifications on this post still.

 

I was looking at the JC3 Jr. vs the Insight. They are within $100 of each other.

I picked the Insight because if the cleaner circuit- no switches, knobs or buttons. Less stuff to screw up the signal. The Insight and 20/20 have 4 jumpers on the board to configure it. The 20/20 has dual power supplies as well, which of course the Jr. doesn't have.

 

Yes I have it it for a few months now, well worth the upgrade if you own a 20/20.

 

Thanks Tom. Are the improvements more apparent in the midrange and top end? How does the power supply impact bottom end response?

 

It give the music more you are there feel, more detail and smoother on the top end. Bass was not affected as far as I could tell. But every system is different and ymmv.

But there was definitely an improvement in the mids and highs

 

Awesome feedback, thank you for sharing. Every time I come back here I keep getting closer to just snagging the new power supply on impulse. It'll happen sooner or later.

 

Ok so I did purchase the separate LPS having owned the 20/20 for about a month prior. This lps is a must have for 20/20 owners. In short the lps does take the 20/20 to a new level of performance. Increased presence is a single word I would you to describe the improvement. Detail,sound stage improvement,separation, top end frequency extension , all of this will definitely improve. I was reluctant to buy this piece as the 20/20 itself was such a vast improvement over the Dynavector P75 Mk 4 I previously was using. If you have any additional questions please let me know
Will-T

 

Dumb Q: Does this curve represent a boost built into the Sutherland 20/20, or does it represent something cutter-heads are baking into vinyl, and so the Sutherland 20/20 implements a corresponding cut?

 

There's been some debate in the past as to whether the popular Neumann inverse RIAA circuits used to drive the cutters over the years included an additional 3.18µS (50KHz) pole in the response curve that wasn't specified by the RIAA standard to roll off the high frequencies. I think the late Allen Wright of Vacuum State Electronics may have popularized the idea, and there have been others that later tried to debunk it as a myth, but apparently RS thinks it is prevalent enough to apply compensation. Some of the later Neumann circuits have opamp compensation applied that limits the ultimate high frequency gain, but it's very dependent on choice of IC, and hence year of production.

Anyway, yes, the compensation boost is built-in to the phono preamp.

 

correct. listening to my vinyl system with the 20/20 sounds so clear and detailed and i wondered if this embedded curve in the RIAA contour helped to contribute to the sound i hear.
it passes the ear test as far as i am concerned.

 

I had a chance to demo the LPS in my system and I didn't hear the same improvements. I was able to demo it for about two weeks and while I think there was a marginal improvement in presentation, I didn't find it to be different enough to justify the price. To be fair, I could be running into the limit of the level of detail I'm getting out of my speakers and if I had some better ones, I might have heard more of a difference. I'd say it's definitely worth it to audition the LPS for everyone who can though.

 

I'm interested in this comparison. We're you using the P75 in current-injection mode? With which cartridges?

 

I had the P75 latest version with a Dynavector DV20 X2L in the Dr T mode. Sounded very clear and transparent but sorely lacking in dynamics and energy.
The Lehmann Black Cube SE II was a big upgrade in those areas and was not much more expensive. The 20/20 is yet again a few levels up from the Black Cube and shatters the P75.

 

Thanks for this. Was hoping the current-injection magic in the P75 was a bit stronger than that, to recommend to a friend.

 

Hi Willy. What cartridge are you running?