Tangerine Dream sound quality on early press CDs

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by sbroache, Jan 17, 2013.

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  1. sbroache

    sbroache Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    Curious if the early Virgin Made in Germany Tangerine Dream CDs are worth tracking down for sound or stick with the current remasters.
     
  2. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Sagamore Beach, Ma
    I have a few of the Virgin CDs. They sound great, but the sound level is low. Dynamics aren't all that hot either. The good and the bad of those early masterings.
     
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  3. ricks

    ricks Custom Title:

    Location:
    Nowhere Fast
    Here are a few threads with info:
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/tangerine-dream-all-purpose-cd-comparison-thread.137682/
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/tangerine-dream-poland-on-cd-question.158005/
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/tangerine-dream-super-bit-mapping.169104/
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/tangerine-dream-jive-years.215080/
    There are more but the search is having issue and I don't have them bookmarked.

    With one exception I do not recommend any of the remasters from the 90's, 00's or recent Esoteric's. The exception is Phaedra where the 1st remaster compares favorably to the original UK for Europe. In that case I still prefer the original but it's really close.


    That is a bit too absolute and my apologies but on the whole I simply do not agree with your low sound and Dynamics lacking comment.

    In most cases with TD on CD there 2 non-remastered masterings one for Europe and one for US markets. For some albums like Exit and Poland there are 3 or more. Over the last 5 years I have acquired nearly all the CD original masterings for their pre 1989 albums that were issued the UK, Europe, US , and Japan [when applicable] and the good dynamic ones are the norm not the exception. I also, sadly, have the remasters; the ones from the 90's, like the SBM's were rendered near-lifeless by Noise Reduction and on some like Encore were "brickwalled. The 2003 effort's are heavily Dynamically compressed and the recent Esoteric are the worst of both world's [regardless of the "pretty" liner notes] as they both Dynamically compressed and were hit very hard by noise reduction.

    sbroache, if you would like my CD recommendation on any TD 1974-1988 album ask away.
     
  4. sbroache

    sbroache Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    Thank you! I'm mainly interested in the core 70s albums Phaedra through Stratospher. I have the opportunity to pick all of these original German pressings at a good price.
     
  5. ricks

    ricks Custom Title:

    Location:
    Nowhere Fast

    Not sure if you mean Germany or West Germany issues. They should be the same masterings. In either case as long as it has the original artwork [indicating an pre remaster]then grab'em.

    I have all the West Germany CD issue's in that range except one album, Stratosfear. Mine is a very early France MPO. If the mastering is the same which it should be, then it's a nice one.

    My Rubycon is the West Germany Blue Face the same mastering appears on the UK for Europe as well. It's my preferred mastering. The reason I single this one album out is there is a now expensive SACD issue from several years back. Don't be fooled by the promise of HiRes the mastering is horrible with tonality that is so off it's not funny.
     
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  6. ribors

    ribors Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Ricks, have you heard any of the Live Bootleg boxes? Always meant to pickup the first box, but waited too long before it went out of print. Now I see Esoteric has reissued it, but I'm skeptical about the sound quality (if only their discs sounded as nice as their booklets looked)... though I don't see any mention of how the first box sounded here either.
     
  7. glenecho

    glenecho Forum Resident

    Everyone says the Esoterics are brickwalled and no noised. I have the Esoteric "Zeit" and it definitely is NOT brickwalled. I cannot say for certain if it is no-noised however. The Esoteric "Sorceror" is also not brickwalled and from my analysis, based on listening to fade in/outs etc. shows no evidence of being no-noised either. In fact, I posted fairly strong evidence here on the forum that if anything, the original MCA cd is noise reduced.

    That said, neither of them are improvements on earlier versions either. Honestly, Zeit sounds like Zeit in every version I have (original Ohr LP, Virgin LP, original Relativity 2CD, Castle, Esoteric). Zeit is just a dark and murky album...I think people expect to see a veil lifted off of an album that was simply recorded that way.

    For the most part the original Virgins are less futzed with for that material. Encore's '95 remaster is definitely borderline brickwalled. There are worse offenders out there but one look at the waveform will tell you that version isn't ideal. I think it's also worthy to mention that all versions of Encore have some distortion in places. It is present on the first pressing LPs as well.
     
  8. ricks

    ricks Custom Title:

    Location:
    Nowhere Fast
    I got all my live stuff from the old TD tree years back the quality ranges from bad to OK. I will say anything that was later released officially usually was given the "professional" treatment and by that I mean addition Dynamic compression.



    In my first post on this thread I mentioned 1974-1988 the reason is I've personally no interest in pre Phaedra TD. So I can't speak about Zeit for example.

    Every Esoteric I've heard is significantly worse than any issue on CD that preceded it. I'd like to single out Poland; not the best recording to begin with, but the Esoteric is one of the dullest, coldest, and most lifeless mastering's I've ever heard. Esoteric is a major user of Noise Reduction to the point one would think they have a financial interest in it. Most of their remasterings are not "brickwalled" but they do deploy decent amounts of Dynamic compression seem to be the norm. In addition Tangerine Dream [actually u know who] did not allow the master tapes to be used so the Esoteric's are from lower gen tapes. I simply have nothing to positive to say about Esoteric's sound although the linear notes are "pretty", not that I could care less.
     
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  9. stenway

    stenway Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Im looking the best sound of TD from virgin years...
    someone have info about the japans 1st pressings? same mastering that UK? or better?
    [​IMG]
     
  10. mr123paul

    mr123paul Member

    Location:
    Cotswolds, UK
    I just received a Virgin CDVD2506 cd of Encore - there's a little hiss, but it sounds good.
     
  11. ricks

    ricks Custom Title:

    Location:
    Nowhere Fast
    Sometimes the same, some are different masterings. Even the cases where the mastering is different the sound is too close for me to come to any conclusion on. Since I do not have all of the early Japans we can use http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/tangerine-dream-all-purpose-cd-comparison-thread.137682 to post EAC peak to determine masterings.

    Agreed, but are you "anti-hiss"? You do know what the absence of hiss on 70's and early 80's [all recorded on analog tape] TD would mean, right
     
  12. mr123paul

    mr123paul Member

    Location:
    Cotswolds, UK
    That's why I said it sounds good...
     
  13. ricks

    ricks Custom Title:

    Location:
    Nowhere Fast
    Gotcha, and agreed :)
     
  14. anduandi

    anduandi Forum Resident

    What about the mastering of the Box-set "The Virgin Years 1977-1983" ?
     
  15. noahjld

    noahjld Der Wixxer

    The work of the Devil himself.
     
  16. anduandi

    anduandi Forum Resident

    I see....thanks.
    So....hunting for the originals...:winkgrin:
     
  17. ricks

    ricks Custom Title:

    Location:
    Nowhere Fast
    Most TD have several original masterings for each title. If you look for the original West Germany, France or UK issue's you will do just fine. As mentioned in an earlier post of mine here are some links that may help:
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/tangerine-dream-all-purpose-cd-comparison-thread.137682/
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/tangerine-dream-poland-on-cd-question.158005/
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/tangerine-dream-super-bit-mapping.169104/
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/tangerine-dream-jive-years.215080/

    I now see it was you who started the Poland thread :)
     
  18. Platterpus

    Platterpus Forum Resident

    Location:
    MPLS
    I have the "Pink Years" CD's on two different labels. The sound quality is good enough for me:

    Electronic Meditation - Relativity
    Alpha Centauri - Relativity
    Zeit - Jive
    Atem - Relativity

    I also have the Green Desert CD on Relativity, but I don't really lump that in with the four above since it's an unreleased/remixed album and sounds more like a 1986 album anyways.
     
  19. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I have early CD releases from the states, and they sound fantastic.
    Optical Race comes to mind. I have never even considered the possibility that a remaster might be better....
     
  20. anduandi

    anduandi Forum Resident

    Yes, that was me:)
    Thanks for the info!
     
  21. serj

    serj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moscow
    Can anyone comment on the sound of the "Near Dark" remaster issued by BSX RECORDS in 2013?
     
  22. serj

    serj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moscow
    Just gor the "Near Dark" soundtrack issued by BSX Records. Very good booklet & nice sound. I'm glad that did not paid much, much more for the original CD.
     
  23. Aris

    Aris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portugal
    I agree with you , out of curiosity the original UK (Phaedra - CDV 2010, Mastered by Nimbus) has a white tray?
     
  24. ricks

    ricks Custom Title:

    Location:
    Nowhere Fast
    Mine has a the normal black tray, but it was a used copy so unknown if it the original.

    The 2015 SHM-SACD and 2015 SHM-CD of Phaedra is now my preferred digital, with the original UK Virgin now coming in 2nd.
     
  25. bcaulf

    bcaulf Forum Resident

    I've been avoiding Tangerine Dream for a while because I've found their catalog on cd kind of confusing. They have so many different eras and label changes and cd masterings and even a couple of 'themed' box sets that it's been hard to keep track of everything. I also don't know what sounds best. Any suggestions? Preferably on the cheaper side. Looking to go pretty much into the mid-eighties for them.

    This band is one that would really benefit from having a career spanning box set, or one that represents the first half of their career and one that represents the other.
     
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