@JulesRules So to confirm We Are Broken: 1. Dry mix, not released on CD as yet 2. With reverb, on Famous Last Words The Collection and on Mad World The Collection (brickwalled) Broken Revisted: 1. Dry mix, on Super Deluxe (mislabelled, intentionally perhaps, as We are Broken) 2. With reverb, on 1999 Remastered SFTBC CD So there are two versions of each of We Are Broken and Broken Revisted, each with or without reverb,
Not sure there is a dry mix of Broken Revisited?? I've got three versions of the track (SFTBC 2006, TH 2013, SFTBC 2014), and the all sound like the same mix to me, although channels are swapped. Worth pointing out that the omission of the original b-side version of "Ideas as Opiates" is the bigger disappointment, as that is a completely different take...
@JulesRules Oh some say that the version on TH 2013 doesn't have reverb like the others? Is it reverb or just the mastering? It's not obvious to me.
It does have reverb. Here's a needledrop I found of the original b-side version: Quite different mixing from all versions recently released on CD, including The Hurting from 2013.
It's the same mix, just almost all versions on CD have more reverb piled on top, as was done for "Broken (Revisited)", which first appeared on a deluxe cassette edition of SFTBC. The only exception I can confirm is this promo-only Canadian CD: Tears For Fears - Tears Laid Low (A Tears For Fears Alter Collection)
Interestingly, on the recent Rule The World tour (Euro leg), they featured 5 songs from this great album, more than any other from catalog.
I still have the suspicion that they originally toyed with the idea of using the track on the SFTBC album (and adding reverb to make it more in line with that album's general mood), before eventually deciding on re-recording the first half and flying in the live version of the second half. I see no other satisfying explanation for the fact that the reversed vocals appear at the end of "Mothers Talk" on the LP.
@JulesRules so are we saying broken revisited is exactly the same on TH 2013 and sFTBC deluxe edition?
I'd say so, yes. I mean the mastering is different (the SFTBC 2014 sounds far superior to my ears), the channels may be swapped (have to check), but it's essentially the same track/mix, therefore clearly mistitled on the Hurting box set.
For anyone interested, I wrote the most recent version of my column on the recording of The Hurting and Big Chair and did some analysis to determine the best digital masterings of each IMHO.
Hm.... great in depth article but I wonder about the compression on the 2013 Hurting. It's a fatiguing listen, the DR is almost identical to the 1999 one (and nowhere near what I'd call a good DR). And as far as EQ is concerned, I've started to go back to the 1999 remaster because Mew's mastering has what somebody on here called "horn-like shrillness", i.e. an unnatural boosting of some high mid frequencies. I'd like to see a comparison of those two discs.
Hmm... I'm not sure what's the source of your impression of the Mew. There's not a consistent pattern in the '99 versus '13, in terms of EQ, other than that the '09 has much more low bass than either the original CD or the '13 CD. It's definitely not the case that the '13 has a consistent treble boost. On several tracks ("The Hurting," "Suffer the Children," and "Start of the Breakdown"), the '99 actually has more treble than the '13 CD. My guess would be that the combination of the bass boost and the noise reduction makes the '99 sound warmer to you.
I've tried to compare on headphones and I didn't notice it anymore However, I do remember hearing this same "Mew style" on some Marillion remasters and not liking it. It's not a complete treble boost, but some high mids that make the cymbals 'sizzle'. Again, that's from memory and maybe my CD player at the time emphasized it... I just remember really trying to convince myself that it was better than the '99 version. In the end, I even deleted the 1983 12" of Pale Shelter from my computer because I found the 1999 remaster of that track clearly superior sounding. Of course this is a bonus track but it says something about Mew's mastering. Going back on this very thread, here's the post I was referring to: Tears For Fears - The Hurting finally gets Deluxe treatment The thing is, neither the 1999 remaster nor the 2013 remaster really capture the atmosphere of the album as it was originally envisaged. And I haven't even heard the original CD! But hearing "Pale Shelter" on the radio, clearly not from either remaster [but possibly from a different source such as the 1992 comp] and noticing how much more organic, and deep it sounded... "deep" is actually a key word here; I noticed this after I had burned "In My Mind's Eye" from the DVD, and a rip of "Going to California" onto CD. Both live recordings have a depth to it that is characteristic of TFF's 80s sound, but something that got lost afterwards. There's an emphasis on bass, and not much treble to speak of. It took me a bit to get used to it, but I found it really reflected the band's essence far more than ELAHE or the recent remasters. Deep bass and a relaxed treble is it, lads! (And maybe that's why I have a soft spot for the 2006 version of SFTBC...) It's also something that goes back to why CD was invented in the first place - see Bob Ludwig's complaints about having to shave bass off an album because it had to be cut to vinyl. Some other comments after reading the whole piece (which overall is definitely worth reading and well-written, but I'm just someone who likes to pick on various things - don't be put off!)... I would never describe "Watch Me Bleed" as one of the weakest tracks on the album, even though it was the first song to drop out of the live setlist... and "Broken" throwaway, really? (The solo is played by Neil Taylor, by the way. He had to learn it from a tape made of his live performance!) I don't think that the "New Version" of Change is better than the LP cut, and neither does the band, despite you leaving out the relevant quotes. Roland: "We had another crack at it slower, but it lost something in the process." Curt: "It's a step backwards to what we were doing before Mad World... the version on 'The Hurting' is a vast improvement." It would also be interesting to compare the SQ of bonus tracks that appear on various versions. (Just kidding.) As is typical of me, I noted some typos you might want to correct... "Howlitt", "Given the song’s theme and the effort that went into recording Big Chair, it nearly became the album’s title." I'm sure you meant The Working Hour. And "nuclear misses" are missiles, I guess. And my personal pet peeves: Alan Parsons'. Not Parson's. And SteveN Wilson. Not Steve Wilson. Also, the proper US remix of Mothers Talk was not included within the reissues. What's billed as it is actually a remix from 1990, which drowns the track in reverb. The video version is closer to the proper mix - but I think the alternate that showed up on the 2006 deluxe and was also included on the box set is even better. No doubt about the 1999 remaster being useless though. It's good I've avoided it, apart from the songs that were included on the double CD "Gold". By the way, the most recent version of Audacity has a simple "Swap channels" button... (And did anyone mention that if the left>right version of SFTBC is really the correct one, most of the single versions and remixes are wrong?!? The note to swap channels was added by Jon Astley in 1999, so I'm not entirely convinced...) Going back to The Hurting, it's really bizarre how the DR and RMS on the 1999 and 2013 differs, as there's really no clear pattern: The Hurting: Louder on 2013 Mad World: Louder on 2013 Pale Shelter: Louder on 1999 Ideas as Opiates: Slightly louder on 1999 Memories Fade: Slightly louder on 1999 Suffer the Children: Slightly louder on 2013 - both are an abominable DR7! Watch Me Bleed: Virtually identical DR & RMS! Change: Louder on 2013 The Prisoner: Louder on 2013 Start of the Breakdown: Louder on 1999
I mean, the people involved with the album said the chimes should go from left to right, so that says something. But it also shows that this channel swapping thing seems to be very widespread, at least when it comes to the album in question...
Does anyone know if the Howlett-produced 7-inch version of "Pale Shelter (You Don't Give Me Love)" ever made it to CD in its longer form, from the reissue in 1985? This ran about 4:30 and therefore differs from the original 7" (4:01) and 12" (6:33) from 1982.
Neat you bring that up Mark. Good question- I just ordered the 85 12 inch a few days ago. I'm a rookie when it comes to all these early TFF mix variations. @jamesc has been giving me some direction.
I didn't realize the 82 7" version was longer than the b-side version from the 82 12" until I saw your post. It's a shame they didn't realize the difference when putting the box together. I was telling Cory the other day that I also just noticed that there's a longer "new version" of Change on the Canadian 12" single! Damn you Discogs!!!
Don't think this full 7 inch has been YT'd so I threw it up. I reversed the backwards masking, if you want to hear it forward I dropboxed it. Should play via browser. Dropbox - Backwards.wav - Simplify your life
There are some slight length variations issued over the years of many Hurting-related tracks, most of which are given a rundown on the Discogs page for the album's box set (and most of the longer run-times made it onto the box). Collectors will obsess to various degrees, but for me there are two that are significant omissions from the box - the aforementioned re-release of the original production of "Pale Shelter (You Don't Give Me Love)" [7"] and, as you mentioned, the Canadian "Change [new version]." Each is about a half-minute longer than other releases; I've never heard the latter. (This is, of course, in addition to the fact that the box omitted the correct b-side versions of "We Are Broken," "Ideas As Opiates" and (at TFF's request) "Saxophones As Opiates.")
I have original cd release smooth case german oneand 2013 two cd one I will compare. My feeling some people just like to complain of sounds that were never really there.
Fantastic reviews, but after (re)listening to it, I can't quite get on board with the 2013 remaster; much too compressed. Original Hurting CD for me, all the way.
I have a rip of the 1985 Pale Shelter reissue 7" and I don't think the few additional repeats of the chorus are that significant. The longer version of the Change New Version does seem interesting to me though...
Did you get this? How does it sound? For the main album, is the original CD still the best digital option? Was this blu-ray just a hi-rez release of the same Peter Mew mastering used for this deluxe edition?
