Technics 1200GR vs alternatives

I know 1210G was a typo but I'd love to see a black G.

 

Oh yes, typo. I'd like to blame jet lag but more likely senility!

 

Hi all! First off, this is my first post on the forum. Not sure how and when I can create an avatar. If anyone knows let me know. Now on to this thread. I took the plunge and ordered a 1210GR. Huge thanks to csgreene for the Musican's Friend tip. I called them up and they were able to offer $18 off if I purchased four items total. I picked up the GR and some cheep .95 cent guitar pics.

Now, I'm stuck between getting the Ortofon 2M Bronze or Black. For the next few years I'll be running it on the following:

Yamaha R-N602 - specs here: R-N602 - Specs - Hi-Fi Components - Audio & Visual - Products - Yamaha - United States

And some old school Marantz model SP800 speakers with the following specs listed on back:

8" High Compliance Woofer
4" Liquid Cooled Midrange
2" Liquid Cooled Tweeter
Crossover Points: 1000Hz, 3000Hz
Impedance: 8 Ohms
Frequency Response: 70Hz-20,000Hz
Amplifier Power:
Minimum: 5 Watts/Channel RMS
Maximum: 60 Watts/Channel RMS
(Power recommendations based on the volume never being set above the point of audible distortion).
Sensitivity: 90dB at 1 Watt, 1 meter

I also have KEF Q100 bookshelf speakers, but they sounded pretty compressed and tight compared to the Marantz. I prefer the open sound of the Marantz so I'm sticking with them for now. I'm also currently limited on space. The speakers sit up on a narrow fireplace mantel on the edges away from any rising heat. I'm currently running a Pro-Ject Carbon Classic with 2M Blue in the OEM Silver cart it originally came with. It sounds great but I hate having to remove the platter to change to 45 RPM (it gets stuck and pulls the belt - I have to use my thumb to push the middle spindle back in while I lift - major pain). So, I'm switching to the GR.

I ultimately plan to upgrade to a McIntosh MAC7200 with better speakers in 4 to 10 years...

My question is will I get any benefit out of the Black on my current system before then? I estimate I listen to about 14 albums on average a week. 30 minutes an album on average comes to 7 hours a week. 7 x 52 weeks in a year comes to 364 hours a year. Ortofon rates their 2M series at 1000 hours before degradation and 2000 hours total. 1000/364 = 2.75 years, 2000/364 = 5.49 years, so... I will need to replace the stylus before the Mac. What I buy now will only be used with the current Yamaha. The majority of my records would be graded NM on discogs so not dirty old records on my end, but surface noise does ruin the experience for me. My Carbon Classic with 2M Blue is dead silent. Is the Bronze or the Black better in this regard?

To go back to my original and ultimate question, will I even hear the benefits of the Black over the Bronze on my current system? Money is not an issue so I want the best for what I am currently stuck with.

 

First, welcome aboard!
I suggest the Bronze for your current setup and to use the difference to save up for a phono pre in preparation for your amp upgrade and then move to the Black stylus.
Either way, enjoy!

 

I saw somewhere else on the forum that the Bronze stylus fits the Blue body. That might save you a few bucks. Or just stick with the Blue until you are ready to jump to the Black.

 

Oops, sorry. I just realized you are running an Ortofon silver with Blue stylus. Disregard previous post.

 

I'm actually moving the Pro-Ject to another room and it will be in constant use, so I'll be starting from scratch with the Technics.

 

Thanks! Do you think there will be a sonic difference between the Black and Bronze on my current setup though? As for the amp upgrade, I'll have to decide what to do when the time comes, but the MAC7200 has an MM Phono input so I'd likely give that a go first.

 

Oops. I meant 18% off the GR, not $18! $18 wouldn't be all that exciting especially with $3 of it going to guitar pics.

 

BTW, is the Bronze easier to setup than the Black? Reading this thread scares me a bit: Cartridge test for Project 9.1X Particularly the following:

"I also noticed that the Shibata stylus needs a perfect SRA or a positively tilted to sound its best.
A negative backwards increase the surface noise more.
So there for I made my setup for 180g records, and when I use lighter/thinner ones the SRA shift a bit to the positive side."​

I don't want to have to re-adjust for different record weights/thickness.

 

The bodies are different. While they physically fit, it is recommended to keep the red/blue on their bodies and the bronze/black on theirs.
Putting a bronze on a red/blue body gives you sorta' a fine line blue.

 

Just watched this:

This is one of the first videos I actually heard a significant difference. I'm seriously interested in the Nagaoka MP-200 now. Ugh.. Thought I was set on the Bronze or Black.

 

I posted this in another thread, but did not want anyone to miss it here as I posted the video. According to The Nagaoka MP-200 phonograph cartridge

"The stylus replacement interval varies depending on the using conditions. But for general use at home, the reference time is between 150-200 hours in which the stylus begin to wear and the tone quality deteriorates. Recommend replacing the stylus as aerly as possible to enjoy clear tone for a long time and not to damage the disc grooves. "​

200 hours? The Ortofons run 1000 - 2000 hours. To put it in perspective. 15 minutes a side on an LP. So two LPs an hour, so 400 LPs max? That won't work for me. Sorry for the detour... I think I'll hold back for an answer to my original question. Will the Black sound better in my current setup?

 

I was lower in the lines, but I switched from the 2M Blue to the Nagaoka MP-150. I would go equal MP line moving forward based on that experience. I really liked the Nagaoka carts.

 

I would expect that to be marketing spin, maybe to sell replacement styli sooner.

Even using the words 'general' & 'begin' are ambiguous but nevertheless clever.... given the spiral of paranoia 'audiophiles' attain when words like quality deteriorates are used (just typing that makes me sweat )

Nagaoka make that claim against all of their stylus shapes so unless they use something else compared to other manufacturers (which they don't), 'diamond' by definition must achieve a given hardness.

 

Since I bought a Nagaoka MP-500 my 2M Black is retired. Never mind the 200h thing, it was already explained elsewhere in this forum a few times.

 

I've been running a 2M Bronze on my 1200GR since new and am pleased with the results. I'm with @Slick Willie - go with a Bronze (or something else in that price range) and save the rest to put towards your MAC7200, better speakers and hopefully some acoustic treatments for the room.

 

Have any Members compared the GR/G to equivalent priced T/t and care to share their thoughts?

 

I’m running an A-T VM750SH on my GR, but a Soundsmith Otello is arriving today. I hope to pick up a Dynavector 10x5 MkII eventually - my first MC cartridge.

Excited to get the Otello up and running. It is the newest version - the redesigned body, etc. Will it be my gateway to higher-priced Soundsmith carts, or will my curiosity be satisfied? Who knows?

 

T/t?
Is that a specific table I'm not familiar with, or are you just asking about the Technics models vs any other options in the price range?

 

I want to know this too

 

Other Turntables in their price range.

 

I touched on the GR vs P6 vs Ultradeck on page 2 of this thread. Technics 1200GR vs alternatives

I can't speak to the G price range though.

 

Wow! That's saying a lot. Your threads were one of the main reasons I wanted a Black. I love the preciseness of my 2M Blue but I am missing that warmth I associate with vinyl.

 

Thanks. I'm leaning towards the Bronze or the 200 now. I played the video, albeit over AirPlay, on my system and I couldn't hear the difference so I am definitely limited at the moment. I will save the Bronze or 500 for later.