Technics 1200GR vs alternatives

I have never had the chance to audition a GAE or G unit and wonder if the cueing has a more robust feel to it?

My other turntable is a vintage Technics 1700MKII I bought new in 1980 which has electronic cueing where you pressed a button on the front panel. It was very smooth as long as you had a good cueing belt so the GR's cueing took a little getting used to.

 

Do you drop the level fully and let it glide down or do you gradually bring the level down? I find myself manually bringing it down slowly. It's like I'm manually dropping the stylus using the lever instead of my finger. On the Pro-Ject it's a lot smother. I still can't slam the lever down and expect it to glide down, but it's more of a smooth drop of the lever while on the GR it's almost like I have to bring it down in gradual increments. The GR just drops faster so it requires more control over the Pro-Ject. Definitely not a deal breaker but not exactly smooth either.

 

I drop the lever and let it glide down and it seems to drop smoothly on my unit. I am pretty gentle engaging the lever out of habit so not sure how it would work it you cued it fast.

 

Thanks. I'll have to test it out a bit. I just got it so I'm still getting used to it. Been afraid to just drop the level all at once.

 

Hey - just curious, how much does that TT weigh? (your Pro Ject)

 

Since you suddenly become "mum" --- your Project weighs 11 lbs. I thought it was a misprint when I read it and had to do a double take! I have TT platters that weigh more than that on a couple of TT's! It is interesting that an owner of an 11lb TT would call anything "flimsy" by comparison.

The GR is anything but "flimsy" -- it is based on a design that many here have 30 or 40 year old examples of (me included) and they work like the day they were made. Sure it is not perfect --- but it sure as hell ain't flimsy! It is a rock solid, reliable and proven design.

 

The cueing mechanism on a lot of arms is going to be dependent on what kind of silicone fluid is in there. Thicker fluid should give a slower, more controlled feel to the mechanism.

 

I have a Project carbon arm and find the G's more fluid and precise.

 

Yeah like any new rig I think you have to find what operation process works best for you.

I did find that if I raise the cue fast it will bounce a little on the rubber covered cue platform but never had this issue on down cueing as some have reported and it always cued true up or down

 

I drop by hand but lift by lever.

 

The comment to which you replied did not say the whole turntable was flimsy. It said a device on that turntable felt almost flimsy. And it was not speculation. It was a first hand experience.

 

5.5 kg or 12.12 lbs

Here are the specs: 1Xpression Carbon Classic – Pro-Ject Audio Systems

 

I wonder how 1200G will compare with upcoming VPI HW-40. I know the price difference is huge and but... there are just not a lot of new production DD turntables around...

 

OK, it's all good. I dropped the lever and it glided down fine and smooth. It's just faster than the Pro-Ject, and it seems like it's getting better. I heard there was some break-in time. It used to kind of wiggle on the way down so that was making me want to manually control the lever down. I'm also getting used to the Nagaoka as it has a wider front than the Ortofon 2M blue so you need to bring it in more.

 

So, I read the higher end of a carts tracking force range is usually better, but it depends on on your tonearm mass. The range for the Nagaoka MP-200 is 1.5g to 2.0g. What would be the recommended tracking force for it with the 1210GR? I had it set to 1.8g but just upped it to 2.0g. I am still breaking it in. Maybe 7 to 10 hours or so in? Not sure as I haven't been keeping track. I know it will eventually open up. I remember the 2m Blue on my Pro-Ject suddenly sounding amazing. It's not there yet with the MP-200. It sounds good but not great yet. The 2M Blue on the Pro-Ject currently sounds better.

 

When I had 2M Blue and Nagaoka MP-110 in my Pioneer PLX-1000, I played the Blue much more. I too liked it better than the MP-110.

 

For those interested, I posted the following in another thread. I thought it might be interesting to some here. I have a Yamaha A-S1100 with my previous Yamaha R-N602 hooked into the tuner in for FM, Spotify, and AirPlay (iPad) streaming. I have my older Pro-Ject Carbon Classic with 2M blue hooked up into the R-N602 phono pre, and I have the Technics SL-1210GR with Nagaoka MP-200 hooked into the A-S1100 phono pre. Aside from the R-N602 pre being lower in volume, I could barely hear a difference. They both sounded excellent. Here's what I posted in that other thread (Yamaha A-S1100 or McIntosh MA5200 ) for those interested:

So, I finally got around to a turntable and phono pre A/B test - sort of. I thought I'd share my findings here for anyone interested.
My Pro-Ject Carbon Classic with 2M Blue is hooked into the phono pre of my R-N602.
My Technics SL-1210GR with Nagaoka MP-200 is hooked into the phono pre of my A-S1100.
The R-N602 pre-out is hooked into the tuner in of my A-S1100, so the Pro-Ject is bypassing the amp section of the R-N602 and going through the main amp section of A-S1100.
I listened with both Harbeth P3ESRs and Klipsch Heresey IIIs.

That said, the only differences should be the turntables, the carts, and the phono pre-amps. The amp is the same with the A-S1100.

So to recap:

The Project Carbon Classic & 2M Blue through R-N602 phono pre
The Technics SL-1210GR & Nagaoka MP-200 through A-S1100 phono pre
Both go through the A-S1100 amp.

The results?

The Project was noticeably lower in volume so I had to constantly turn the volume up and then down. It wasn't that big of a deal though as it was quick and didn't ruin the comparison. It would have been nice to get them at the exact same levels but it's not possible as far as I know. Adjusting the phono gain level or the main volume level on the 602 does nothing as it bypasses the amp section, which is good in this case.

Take this for what it's worth considering the differences, but I could barely tell any difference. They were extremely close and they sounded equally good. I noticed a tiny bit more isolation and definition on the Pro-Ject w/ 2M Blue for certain instruments, and the Technics MP-200 seemed just slightly rounder/warmer. I suspect the main difference was with the carts based on what I've read about them. If that is the case, then the phono pre design on the R-N602 is just lower in volume/output compared to the A-S1100 and I'm guessing the turntables essentially made no difference. I would have to swap carts to be sure, but I don't want to mess them up and I don't care enough to go through the hassle. I just wanted to see what the differences were with the current setup and pass it along for anyone interested.​

 

Well what do they say about best laid plans. I have pulled the trigger and low and behold it was neither the rega p6 or the technics 1210. My new turntable is a EAT c-sharp w/ Ortofon Quintet black mc. I decided to give one a test drive before picking up the technics and I fell in love with it. My audio guy who is an authorized dealer is setting it up for me and hopefully I will pick it up (Monday). It’s the limited edition black on white. And I got 25 yes you heard me right 25 percent off. It was a no brainer. I am like a little kid on Christmas Eve right now. Thanks to everyone for your advice but in the end I let my ears make the decision.
D

 

Wow. It sounds you got yourself quite a deal. Congrats and enjoy!

 

It's taken quite a bit of getting used to for me, coming from 17 years of a Rega P3-2000, where the drop is very slow.

 

I’m wondering about an outboard phono preamp. My audio guy says I will want one to get the full potential out of the eat. My amp is a Yamaha a-s1100 which I thought has a pretty decent mc phono stage. So when I pick it up I am going to try it with and without the outboard phono stage.
D

 

Thanks!!!

 

Congrats!! An interesting/sharp looking table for sure!
Be sure to isolate it well as I hear tell it is a bit resonant.

 

Curious what you mean by resonant, and where you saw that, if you recall? Not implying you are wrong, just curious since I haven't seen that mentioned before. It's a suspended chassis design using a bunch of thermoplastic elastomer isolation dampers between the base and carbon fiber top plate, and the same material in the feet, so I guess it could be susceptible to footfall type issues if that's near the tuning frequency, but it should be well isolated from higher frequency vibrations, and uses additional damping grease in the tonearm bearings. It's a pretty a nice design, but as you imply, all turntables benefit to a degree from careful siting.

 

Did not mean to cause you concern and as you know, care should be taken with all tables. I read a few reviews recently as it was a table I considered at one point. Here is a comment from the first that popped up in a search I just did from The Absolute Sound:

Isolation is always something to consider when purchasing a turntable and finding the right location for it in your listening room. While the C-Sharp has internal damping within its sandwich chassis as well as elastomer-damped feet, care should be taken with its placement. The top chassis is a bit lively when touched or tapped—enough to hear sound through the speakers. This liveliness can result in the ’table being susceptible to airborne or robust floorborne vibrations. Acoustic feedback, especially from powerful bass-heavy transients, can potentially cause turntable systems to oscillate. For my evaluation, placing the C-Sharp on a rigid corner shelf provided sufficient isolation for all but the most demanding music played back at amplitudes far beyond normal listening levels. If you tend to play very loud, you may either need to consider some additional isolation or to find a different location for the ’table. (These comments are not exclusive to the C-Sharp and should be considered with any turntable.)

He also goes on to say:

The speed stability of the C-Sharp was excellent. The main reason for the head-bopping drive and remarkable timing I experienced during my evaluation was the ’table’s drive system—with which I could find no fault. Well done.

The combination of the C-Sharp and Quintet Black produced appealing sound that had rhythmic drive and made nearly everything I spun fun to listen to. While not the most detailed presentation, the combo just played the music on nearly everything I threw at it. Although it lacked the ultimate resolution and complete neutrality of pricier analog front-ends, the C-Sharp/Quintet Black had a way of convincing this listener that its “sins” of omission were more than acceptable. Indeed, I found myself spending more time listening to complete albums during the review period than what I’d originally allocated.

Anyhoo....enough of that on a Technics thread.