The Band SHM “Flat Transfer” CDs vs Mofi /AF

It’s “Stage Fright”:

The Band "Stage Fright"different mixes questions..

 

Oh okay, been doing my homework but the MOFI SACD and SHM SACD both feature the original mix that was first issued on vinyl correct?

 

Correct. The original CD and the DCC contain the alternate mix.

 

Well and there was the clicking sound on the CD layer of Music From Big Pink as I recall.

I prefer the AF for the Brown album myself. It sounds more natural to me.

 

Going to revive this old thread to say that I think the mastering on the To Kingdom Come set from 1989 is the best these tracks have ever sounded. I read somewhere on this site that Bob Ludwig mastered this set. He really cleaned up the lower midrange / upper bass on a lot of tracks and makes them feel clearer and less muddy. I imagine most folks here will prefer the darker, likely truer to the source approach that Mofi took, but I really think RL nailed the mastering on this set.

For the albums proper I still go to the MFSL SACDs and the AF brown album along with the original CDs for Moondog and Islands.

 

Really? Even on tracks like The Weight, Ophelia, Acadian Driftwood and pretty much every track from Moondog Matinee? Something I’ve always appreciated about your mastering is the attention to bass cloud and getting the mids and vocals right. Compare your version of Positively 4th Street with the MFSL version. You cleaned up the bass cloud while Mofi didn’t, and I much prefer your version. I think many of The Band’s tracks needed similar help.

Have you heard the SHM flat transfers? Moondog is way too bloated in the bass and so is The Weight. To Kingdom Come tames the bass and brings out the mids on those tracks especially.

Rob LoVerde mastered Northern Lights and I think it sounds a little muddy in the mid / upper bass - a common complaint I have with some of his work (Eat A Peach, Pearl, Layla to name a few).

Your masterings of S/T and Stage Fright are a couple of my favorite things in my collection, but I think To Kingdom Come is the next best thing for many tracks. However for Cahoots I do prefer Shawn Britton’s MFSL mastering...

 

I’ve suspected that Rob has a pretty minimalistic approach to mastering - sometimes it yields beautiful results, but other times I think a little more EQ would be helpful.

I’ll also admit that I think Bob Ludwig sometimes goes a little too far with the “scrubbing it clean” approach so to speak (or just too far with EQ in general for my tastes).

Fortunately, The Band’s catalog is overall in much better shape than many other artists from their era.

 

Doing a little digging it appears that the MFSL issue of The Band (S/T) uses a different tape than the AF or the SHM. Below are 2 spectrogram view screenshots of Up On Cripple Creek. The AF and SHM appear to use a common tape while the MFSL appears to use something different and possibly superior? I'm not an expert at this, but it seems that the MFSL has evidence of a splice to non-magnetic leader (possibly the master?) while the AF and SHM seem to have evidence of magnetic copy tape between tracks. I analyzed every track and the result was the same for each one - the MFSL appearing to have a splice to non-magnetic leader tape, while the AF (I didn't check the SHM for every single track) appearing to have evidence of magnetic copy tape between tracks.

 

MoFi could just have faded to silence the starts and ends; although that's not consistent with their usual M.O., it looks like it could have been done on the second sets of spectrograms.

 

Interesting @Grateful Ed It goes without saying I guess that MFSL did not use the OMR banner for that one, so I guess either they can’t be sure what they used or they are sure what they used is better, but everyone managing the tapes believes what has been used for the AF, SHMs are the master tapes so they don’t want to say otherwise to avoid ruffling feathers perhaps. All just some speculation of course.

 

I should have prefaced that post with noticing a drop out or drop in level in the left channel on Rag Mama Rag on the Mofi starting around 0:16 which is absent on the AF and SHM. That’s what prompted me to start looking at spectrograms.

The first photo of the beginning of the track was the most compelling to me for suggesting different tapes were used, although I admittedly don’t know how to tell whether Mofi digitally silenced the beginnings of the tracks or not. The second photo does look like Mofi maybe helped the fades some. What’s interesting about the second photo is how by the end of the track the AF and SHM are still in almost perfect sync while the Mofi ends up a bit ahead. I realize the transfer itself could cause this difference, but it seems like an unlikely coincidence when combined with the way the beginnings of the tracks look and some other oddities. For example, there’s also a difference in stereo image on Up On Cripple Creek - the AF and SHM are pretty much the same and the Mofi is different. Again, something like that could be caused by mastering choices, but it also seems like an unlikely coincidence when combined with the above points.

As far as the banner goes, I know Mofi uses the “MFSL banner” when they can’t say for certain that a master tape was used, but I don’t think it always means that the masters definitely weren’t used. The Allman Brother At Fillmore East comes to mind.

Either way, I find it curious. I do have the original Capitol CD too. I’ll rip it later and see how it compares. I don’t have the 2000 remaster.

 

Look again - the AF is in the lead, followed by the SHM and then the MFSL closely behind it.

 

I did say “almost perfect sync.” I’d still say there’s a much more significant difference between the MFSL and either the AF or the SHM than there is between the AF and SHM.

I also didn’t line these up to the sample from the start of the track. I got them as close as I felt was needed to display what I was observing.

 

While the AF and the SHM may appear to be close to being in sync, in fact the features that look like they line up are not the same features.

According to your screenshot, the AF is ahead of the SHM more than the MFSL is behind it.

 

Ahh you’re right. Guess I did that too early this morning.

What are your thoughts on the first screenshot?

 

Not sure - looks like the MFSL perhaps has a quick fade up from digital silence (and a fade to black at the end too).

Hard to be sure from just these images.

 

Regardless of tapes used (they could all be the same tape after all that), overall I still like the AF best, but there are a few tracks I really like on the MFSL (Across The Great Divide, The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, King Harvest). Rockin’ Chair is oddly rolled off on the Mofi - don’t really like the way it sounds, and I think the stereo image on Cripple Creek is more balanced on the AF and SHM than it is on the Mofi.

 

Ok here's the original Capitol CD. Different yet again. Maybe the original Capitol and the Mofi just did a quick fade up from digital silence and the AF and SHM didn't?

 

What's the time scale? It doesn't look like a fade up but a cold start.

 

Here's another with time scale - the entire screenshot is about 0.5 seconds.

 

So it's a cold start.

 

Just use your ears to decide.
Remember when I played my SHM-SACD of the "brown album" for the first time, there was no doubt in my mind that this was sourced from the original master. I could hear really deep into the tapes, it was a total transparent and astonishing experience.