The Brian Jones Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by honestmaxx, Sep 29, 2019.

  1. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    Oh, yeah... All these years I've thought the song was called, 'I Just Can't Be Satisfied'... - still do.

     
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  2. Crimson Witch

    Crimson Witch Roll across the floor thru the hole & out the door

    Location:
    Lower Michigan

    A common misconception, owing to the lyrics. Muddy's title is "I Can't Be Satisfied", and it appears this way on the track listing on 'No. 2' by The Rolling Stones.
     
  3. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    'Dear Doctor' - take 1.

     
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  4. GlassPepper

    GlassPepper I can't get no

    Location:
    UK
    I love how Dear Doctor was placed after No Expectations. Beggars Banquet just has a flawless flow. The opener is so acoustic yet so powerful and then the vibe is brought to an almost standstill with the haunting No Expectations before slowly building up again with songs like Jigsaw Puzzle to the climax of Salt Of The Earth with it's dense choir and sardonic chorus.

    Beggars Banquet as a whole is a fitting capstone to the Brian Jones era - experimental, bluesy and rhythm driven rock. Brian might have had what is claimed to be minimal input but for whatever reason the Stones were never the same once Brian Jones bailed.

    Let It Bleed ushered in the new Stones (I know Brian has a single musical contribution) - a more darker and sinister band.

    listen to Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed back to back - you'll see their whole sound got darker.
     
  5. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
    Technically two, as he played autoharp on “You Got The Silver” and percussion (specifically congas, I believe) on “Midnight Rambler”. He’s not really obvious on either track (and really, Taylor isn’t super prominent on his two tracks either), but he is on both tracks.

    I do really like your description of BB, and I think that’s the kind of style Brian would have gone into in his post Stones career (at least intially).
     
  6. GlassPepper

    GlassPepper I can't get no

    Location:
    UK
    Yeah but his contributions to LIB don't really define the album. His slide guitar, sitar, mellotron work and harmonica on BB really do help define it.

    Those two trivial contributions to LIB do not define the albums sound.

    I think Brian too would have done an album with a kind of Beggars Banquet sound. That blend of genres so prevalent on the album were everything by all accounts he was into around that late 60s period.

    And some writers that have claimed to have heard his home demos stated they were blues based with an experimental sound - also noting he had a music room full of exotic instruments and his own tape machine for making layered demos. Based on my own research - and using logic, he would have likely worked with George Chkiantz as they both edited and produced that Pipes Of Pan album.

    The sorta timeline for a Jones solo career would've probably started with the release of his prized Pipes Of Pan At Joujouka Tape as he was working on the project before he passed, designing the sleeve and editing and remixing the songs with effects and stuff, with a release date for 1970 looking possible.

    I then think we might have gotten a single with a band or possibly Jones as a solo act released in 1971 at the latest with an album coming soon after it.
    ;)

    i really do wish in my life time those demos get leaked or bootlegged, it is the only way i think anyone will have closure on who Brian Jones was - to hear something directly from his soul.
     
  7. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
    I’d agree with Brian’s post Stones career proper starting in 71 or so. The first year or so out of the Stones, he’d spend trying to get a fresh start, maybe get Pipes Of Pan out, maybe even pop up on All Things Must Pass. Generally, 69-70 would have likely been a transitional phase for him.
     
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  8. GlassPepper

    GlassPepper I can't get no

    Location:
    UK
    [​IMG]

    Found the USA copyright for the music used in the movie.... Leeds Music Inc??
     
  9. Crimson Witch

    Crimson Witch Roll across the floor thru the hole & out the door

    Location:
    Lower Michigan
    Actually, Brian contributed to two songs on LIB. He plays congas on Midnight Rambler and autoharp on You got the Silver. Definitely a contrast with Beggars Banquet, on which Brian contributes to every song but one.
     
  10. GlassPepper

    GlassPepper I can't get no

    Location:
    UK
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
  11. GlassPepper

    GlassPepper I can't get no

    Location:
    UK
    And the complete files for the 1983 reinvestigation into Jones' death are available (they were opened in 2014)

    "At Hartfield in 1969, on the publication of newspaper articles alleging that he was murdered. The man making the allegations declined to make a statement and the investigation was abandoned. Correspondence with the Coroner and with other police officers, copy coroner's reports and newspaper cuttings. Deputy Chief Superintendent's file"

    Reinvestigation of the death of Brian Jones, of the Rolling Stones pop group | The National Archives

    they can only be viewed in person at the Sussex Record Office. In the future if i visit Sussex i will book an appointment and have a peep. I'm interested in reading the correspondence with the coroner (surprised he was still alive in 1983!) and seeing the Superintendents file.

    i have a feeling that a lot of authors including Paul Spendel, Terry Rawlings and Paul Trynka are just creating conspiracy for cash and haven't even investigated properly.
     
  12. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    'High And Dry' from 1966. Foreshadowing the rural blues sound from the Beggars era a couple years later.
    Brian on harp.

     
  13. GlassPepper

    GlassPepper I can't get no

    Location:
    UK
    [​IMG]

    Brian Jones' coffin from his funeral.
     
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  14. GlassPepper

    GlassPepper I can't get no

    Location:
    UK
    [​IMG]

    the pool Brian died in - pictured on the 3rd of July 1969. Hours after he passed away. Joneses two pet dogs near the pool.
     
  15. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    I found the Creem magazine from July 1974 with the interview quotes (page 77) from Jagger on Brian's involvement with Beggars Banquet. See below.

    Jagger said 'that was his album' - Brian's.

    That's quite revealing, because we often hear that Brian was just an incidental participant on BB. Jagger's quote implies that the album was the kind of Stones album that Brian wanted them to make. That would make Brian largely responsible for the 'roots rock' direction that the band would take from there thru Exile.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. GlassPepper

    GlassPepper I can't get no

    Location:
    UK
    thank you for sharing that.

    That is most interesting - the tone change is already there from BB to LIB and the biggest factor is Jones retreating and not helping much anymore. that interview really does show Mick thinks Brian was a big factor in BB. (I know Jones played two almost inaudible things on LIB)

    I wish we had more info on how the album grew from Embryonic ideas, I seem to recall someone claiming Bill Wyman had stated that Jagger had asked everyone to try and contribute a track for the record - Bill's was Downtown Suzie... but we have no idea if Brian contributed any original song period.
     
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  17. GlassPepper

    GlassPepper I can't get no

    Location:
    UK
    If anyone wants some interesting reading here is a document produced by the owner of iorr.org on the Beggars Banquet album art - it is quite informative with some facts rarely shared - including the images for photo sessions intended for the cover at one time.

    https://iorr.org/albums/beggars-banquet.pdf
     
  18. crozcat

    crozcat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    ^
    Actually I think in Jagger´s mind that quote was meant to be "that was his LAST album"...
     
  19. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    Jagger just says it ‘was his album’. Nothing that refers to ‘last’ in that sentence.
     
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  20. GlassPepper

    GlassPepper I can't get no

    Location:
    UK
    The obvious fact their music was more diverse sounding with Jones in the band proves one point that he made more than just instrument contributions. He must've help shape some songs - which is something he claimed to the director of the Degree Of Murder movie.
     
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  21. Craig Slowinski

    Craig Slowinski Forum Resident

    Location:
    Omaha
    Actually, Jagger's very next sentence implies it...as if he really DID say "last album", and was misquoted by the word "last" being mistakenly left out of the transcript. Therefore, it would make a lot more sense if it read this way: "Brian played on some of Beggars Banquet - not all of it. Let's say he was helpful. I don't know exactly how many tracks he played on but that was his last album. We did Let It Bleed without him." Saying that Brian was only on "some" of the album and that his contributions were merely "helpful", and then turning around and saying it was "his" album doesn't make a whole lotta sense, and in fact sounds contradictory. However, following up those first two comments by saying, "that was his last album. We did (the next one) without him" makes much more sense.

    Not only does that make perfect sense, but it also fits with the running Jagger/Richards narrative that Brian was a mess during the BB sessions and contributed very little. There's a quote from Keith somewhere (maybe in a late '70s or early '80s Guitar Player, not sure) where, speaking strictly of the guitar work on BB he said, "I think Brian's possibly on one track" (he didn't name it, but it would of course be "No Expectations"). Elsewhere (in the last couple of decades) there's an interview with Mick where he specifically acknowledged that Brian's playing slide on "No Expectations", and there are a couple of Keith interviews (also from the last twenty years or so) where he mentions the tamboura on "Street Fighting Man" (can't remember if he credited Brian with it or not). To my knowledge, those are the only two Brian contributions on BB that have ever been acknowledged by the Glimmer Twins.

    It would be GREAT to know exactly which parts Brian is playing on that album - personally, I think crediting him with harmonica on all songs that have harmonica (as we see on Wikipedia and various fan sites) is wrong. For instance, "Parachute Woman" - granted, the sites I've seen credit both Jones and Jagger with harmonica on that one, presumably because there are clearly two harmonica parts on the record - the main part wailing away in the background, and another, more "upfront" part over the fadeout. In the live performance from Rock And Roll Circus, Brian is playing rhythm guitar only. Jagger picks up a harmonica and blows the riff at the end of the song, but I would think if Brian had played the main harmonica part throughout the song on the record, he would've done so onstage. Mick could've played both parts on the record, overdubbing his vocal on top of the first part. Regardless, I'd love to know for sure! But the credits we see on various sites also say that Brian is playing guitar on this track, and I really don't think he is - it sounds like Keith on all the guitar parts - and that Bill is playing bass, but there's no audible bass on the record (just an electric guitar holding down the low end).

    Likewise, various sites credit Jones with both tamboura AND sitar on "SFM", but it seems to me only tamboura is present. I know Keith made reference to the inclusion of sitar on the track in an early '70s interview, but in later interviews, he mentions the tamboura only, so I think he simply misspoke in the earlier reference. I only hear the droning sound of the tamboura on that one.

    As for "Dear Doctor" - elsewhere on this thread, I did mistakenly state that the bootlegged rough mix of an alternate take - with both harmonica and lead vocal present - didn't necessarily prove that Jagger wasn't playing the harmonica, as I misremembered this as perhaps being an alternate "rough mix", rather than an actual "alternate performance". However, I've since re-listened, and "Dear Doctor Take 1" is clearly a different performance than the released take - and since both harmonica and guide vocal are present, I think we can conclude that Brian IS playing harmonica on that one! However, I think people are perhaps jumping to the conclusion that the same thing happened on "Parachute Woman" and "Prodigal Son" - Brian playing harmonica behind a live Mick vocal. Can't say for sure though! I would like to think that if Brian played all that harmonica on the album, Mick/Keith would've acknowledge it by now, but who knows?

    Are the actual, full BB session tapes (including multiple takes and between-take chatter) circulating out there (like they are for Satanic Majesties)? That would be MOST helpful in determining once-and-for-all Brian Jones' contributions to this great album - the last to be fully recorded and released in his lifetime!
     
  22. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    But that's the problem for folks that want to change the quote and stick the word 'last' into Mick's quote, to fit their narrative, and without proof. Mick doesn't say 'last'.

    What he says is, 'but that was his album' - ie., Beggars was Brian's album. That quote stands as-is, unless someone can prove Mick said something otherwise.

    Reads to me like, that was his pet album so of course he's playing on it.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
  23. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    Maharishi time... 1967.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

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  24. btltez

    btltez Forum Resident

    Location:
    I'm From Detroit
    Editorial mistake most likely. The band has frequently said it was Brian's last attempt on an album. I highly doubt Mick would have called this Brian's album. He's barely on it.
     
  25. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    He's on all the songs but one or two.

    Anita has said that Brian wasn't fond of the Satanic Majesties direction the Stones had taken, and wanted to go in a raw Blues direction. There's quotes about that, too.
     

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