The Floating World : The "Official" Soft Machine Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Scope J, Mar 11, 2010.

  1. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    The activity of most progressive acts interested in the improvisational aspect was undoubtedly informed by the evolution of jazz in the 60s and they were all well-acquainted with the recent developments of avant-garde jazz. Needless to say that Pharoah Sanders' post-Coltrane spiritual milestone "The Creator Has A Master Plan" (1969) would be covered live over the course of next three years by Nucleus, King Crimson, Santana and Tommy Bolin's Zephyr!

    However, there are also some interesting differences. The first four albums of King Crimson were audibly indebted to the modal jazz of Eric Dolphy and John Coltrane as well as compositional framework of Charles Mingus and, perhaps, George Russell, even though one could also hear the influences of Cecil Taylor (on Keith Tippett's piano) and the nascent British school of free-improv (in "Moonchild" improvisation which would have a second coming with the arrival of Jamie Muir three years later).

    On the other hand Soft Machine's jazz strains seemed to be born out of the transmutation of free-bop into fusion during Miles' early electric period, that would go hand in hand with the music created in parallel by Miles revolutionary alumni, especially Herbie Hancock's Mwandishi and Joe Zawinul's Weather Report. Both electric pianists probably inspired Soft Machine's keyboardist as much as the pioneers of academic minimalism, e.g. Terry Riley, at least until the appearance of Elton Dean's own Rashied Ali in the person of Phil Howard that would (briefly) move the band into Coltrane's ultimate spiritual freedom.

    Every time I listen to Mwandishi's (unofficial) live recordings ('71-73), Weather Report's Live in Tokyo '72 or John Coltrane's Live in Japan '66 I can hear some elements mirrored in different phases of Soft Machine's live trajectory.

    Interestingly the third major exponent of improvised progressive rock in the UK, Henry Cow, seemed to source their influences away from the main streams of jazz development, with a possible exception for Sun Ra's pioneering work, looking instead towards academic vanguard of the 50s and 60s, that would situate them closer to Frank Zappa (Varèse) and Can (Stockhausen) than their compatriots from the scene.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  2. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    I remember Elton Dean mentioned that the Softs saw Miles's 1971 band with Keith Jarrett when they played in London and that Ratledge began moving around a bit while he played as Jarrett did.
     
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  3. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    Fortunately, that's the only live characteristic of Jarrett's that Ratledge seems to have adopted.
     
  4. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    I thought it time to get this thread back in the flow of things here. Thanks largely to @jay.dee's help, I've been immersing myself in a good chunk of Soft Machine over the past three months or so. I had only one release as of the beginning of January (a used LP of Volume 2 that I got in 1982, and I really had little idea about what they were about in the bigger picture) and now I have 21 recently-obtained releases with another (likely my last; 4/26/70 Facelift - not the best recording) on the way in the next few days. I've been writing a fairly expansive dissertation that perhaps no one here will care about, but I've been unable to finish it because I keep buying more.

    For now, I'll limit my commentary to this: My initial take was that Wyatt was not going to appeal to me because I don't particularly care for the early, rather quirky humour in their sound. So, my initial purchases focused on the '71-'74 period. While I found much to like (thanks in no small part to a young Holdsworth), I've come to find that the late '69 - mid '72 period is full of absolutely blissfully insane renderings of their catalogue. I actually enjoy the Wyatt vocal improvs with delay that show up here and there in '70 and the improvisational approach to knitting together their mostly instrumental pieces is brilliant. Noisette is understandably rated very highly, but I would add Backwards, Grides, Breda Reactor (also found on Live in 1970 along with the Ronnie Scott material from April 1970, although the latter is weaker than Breda in terms of sound quality), Live at Henie Onstad Art Centre 1971, SM & Heavy Friends, Virtually, Drop and Live in Paris (May 2, 1972 - the day before a two-night run by Grateful Dead) to this list of stunning performances. Sound quality varies, but other than the Ronnie Scott stuff, it's all quite good although Wyatt's drums are low in the mix on some.

    As for post-Elton Dean (he left in mid-1972), it's up and down. But here's one viddy that I think is head and shoulders about any other performance of this pairing. It was recorded on November 29, 1972 in BBC studios, but was not aired until February 1973. All White had been in the repertoire for quite some time, but Jenkins composed Fanfare as a new intro. This is as out as Fanfare ever got to my ears, and when they drop into the All White groove at 0:53, it's as good as good gets - greasy, greasy, greasy. Marshall is out of his mind and just before Jenkins comes back in on oboe at 1:23, Hopper and Ratledge go to the V chord to build tension. By the time that tension is released at 1:36, things get very 'Trane/My Favorite Things, but rocked out. The ultimate in what fusion was really supposed to mean to my ears:



    More later if I can stop buying this stuff...
     
  5. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    Great preamble!

    For me the definitive live peaks of the 1969-72 period are:
    • early 1970: Ratledge/Hopper/Wyatt nucleus expanded with a changing group of reedists, with Elton Dean and Lyn Dobson forming a stable 3rd era tour quintet documented on Noisette, Breda Reactor and Alive in Paris (DVD),
    • early 1971: Ratledge/Hopper/Wyatt/Dean quartet hits their stride delivering definitive live renditions of the 4th era on Virtually and Live at Henie Onstad Art Centre,
    • early 1972: Ratledge/Hopper/Marshall/Dean quartet loosens up quite a bit (thanks to late '71 Howard free-jazz phase of the 5th side), which gets brilliantly captured on Live in Paris,
    • late 1972: Ratledge/Hopper/Marshall/Jenkins quartet cools free forms down into a minimalist fusion of their 6th album, whose live side together with BBC Softstage are the only documents we have got released so far.
    Unfortunately in 1973 Hopper left, Jenkins retreated to the background to play synths and the band started to bring in guitarists to pursue a contemporary power guitar fusion style. And despite many fine moments that would follow they lost their quirkiness, subtlety and exploratory edge that had made them such a unique phenomenon.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  6. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    Here is an insighful essay on Croydon, January '70 show by the quintet lineup that got documented on the Cuneiform's release Noisette:
    Soft Machine in Croydon, 1970
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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  7. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    Here's another piece that was recorded on November 29, 1972 in BBC studios along with the version of Fanfare/All White that I posted above (you'll have to watch on youtube; sorry). This BBC feature occurred during the recording of Six but this performance of Gesolreut (German for do re mi) exhibits a swagger that is lacking in most or all of the other versions I have (Softstage, Six (live) and NDR Jazz Workshop). John Marshall is particularly fluid here. He has described Gesolreut as being in 6/4 (John Marshall on Soft Machine’s Quintessential Recordings | Modern Drummer Magazine ) and I can see why he viewed it this way, but Hopper's ostinato bass line is actually 5 + 7. I would thus think of the bass part as being in 12 (the bottom number is really meaningless since there's no triplet feel that 12/8 would suggest) and simply feel the asymmetrical hitch in the groove rather than counting/feeling 5+7...5+7... The rest of the band likely feels things in 6. The result is this oddly loosey-goosey tightness that's always a great thing in music.

    Watch on youtube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nZKklqJH9o
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
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  8. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    Soft Machine are the only band that I've discovered in the last ~5-6 years to actually captivate me enough to really care about them. This hasn’t happened to me since I got back on the bus after some 20 years off of it with Grateful Dead in 2013; finally got Zappa in 2010; and got deeper into King Crimson in 2006. In the interest of keeping this thread alive, here's my plan: I'll post reviews of official releases at least once a week (expecting to fail at even this most basic task). I am going to stick to the late '69-mid-'72 period as that is where my preferences lie (the jazz era, wherein they go in and out of free jazz and skirt the edges of I'm not sure just what). I'm sure that there are plenty of other releases outside of this era that folks here love and that's fine. I've covered my favorite material (aside from the Holdsworth era which speaks for itself) with Jenkins (joined in June 1972) in the above viddies, so here's my list (portions of the two BBC 2-CD releases (1967-1971 and 1971-1974) cover more broad spans; I'll only comment on those in the aforementioned time frame):
    1. Backwards
    2. Noisette
    3. Alive in Paris (DVD)
    4. Live in 1970 - Breda Reactor
    5. Live in 1970 - Ronnie Scott's
    6. Facelift (should arrive any day)
    7. Grides (CD; DVD from the same date as Virtually but different performance)
    8. Live at Henie Onstad Art Centre 1971
    9. SM & Heavy Friends
    10. Virtually
    11. Drop
    12. Live in Paris
    13. BBC 1967-1971
    14. BBC 1971-1974
    15. Third
    16. Fourth
    17. Fifth
    Now to strap on the 'phones and get back to work. By the way, for those of you who are familiar with my dissection of Grateful Dead in their various threads, I will endeavor to include a similar scope here. However, GD were a band that made rather simple harmonic construct complicated, while this era of SM made rather complex harmonic structure even more complicated. Or perhaps better put, more nebulous. So, I'll need to grab some shovels from the shed. No, I don't have a second shed and I've actually considered getting rid of the first one. In which case I'd be known as "No Sheds Archtop." So much for silly, eh?
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  9. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    Well, I've dropped the ball here. Rather than present a chronological discussion of the releases I noted above (and I left out the 8/13/70 Proms gig that's the bonus material on my copy of Third, so that'll be in here eventually), I figured I'd discuss releases as they strike me. First up:

    Fourth: Normally, I'm a live improv guy, but this disc keeps growing on me. In particular, Hopper's Virtually is a massive stand-out; Parts 1 and 2 in particular. One one level, it's a lesson in minimalism, but on another level, it's a great example of layering and development to what I would have hoped would be a crashing racapitulation of the the main theme (the Gmin - EbMaj7) but Hopper obviously chose otherwise (or the studio work simply lead to what we got). Still, it's a great piece. Roy Babbington plays double bass on this (sometimes double-tracked) and the horns (Charig, Evans, Hastings, Skidmore and Dean) provide, along with Ratledge (whose Lowrey organ often sounds very sax-like), melodic complexity and develop additional themes that come and go as the main theme comes and goes.

    When the main theme returns at 3:36 of Pt. 2, it sounds very much like a studio edit, but it works. (As an aside, I tend to prefer live stuff for this very reason; I like to hear what happened as it happened; but such is the reality of studio recording - it happened, just not exactly like you're hearing it.) As for the other tracks, Teeth sounds like an Ornette Coleman melody and the band burns behind Dean at the beginning and then we get unusual horn arrangements and then the band burning behind Ratledge. Kings and Queens is OK but not anything that's worth much discussion other than to note that it sounds and feels like a slow version of Out-Bloody-Rageous; both of which sound a bit cribbed (there are only 12 notes!) from Wayne Shorter's Footprints (which is in 3; Kings and Queens is in a slow 6 and Out-Bloody-Rageous is in an up to very up 4). Fletcher's Blemish is another stand-out track with Babbington sawing away a la David Izenzon or Mark Dresser behind a more or less free jazz construct. It's worth noting that the version on BBC 1967-1971 is much longer, more angular and simultaneously more coherent (in some odd way - I love that I'm almost completely incapable of describing this band at times).
     
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  10. Daryl M

    Daryl M Senior Member

    Location:
    London, Ontario
    After some hesitation, I finally capitulated and ordered the latest studio CD
    from the `current' Soft Machine -`Hidden Details' and was blown away. A
    worthy addition to the extensive catalogue.
     
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  11. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    For me, I don't get on board until the latter portion of '69. Then I'm swabbing the deck, cooking the meals and hauling on the bowline until mid-'72.
    As suggested by my response to the above post, I'm very much aligned with the horn-based instrumental period from "Backwards" through "Live in Paris" (May 2, 1972) as opposed to the more ostinato-based bass riff approach that started in earnest in 1973. But your review is in line with other reviews I've read of this one, so I sort feel as if I should support them for doing this at an advanced age. I'm sure that I'll pick this up at some point in the near future. Thanks for posting your positive thoughts.
     
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  12. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    @AxiomAcoustics once mentioned Robert Wyatt's anecdote of how the drummer had met and befriended Mike Ratledge in 5th/6th grade. The musicians allegedly became friends because Wyatt had a Cecil Taylor (w/Steve Lacy) record, which brought the two together aesthetically.

    The influence of free/"outward" jazz on experimenting rock bands formed in the second half of the 60s is frequently underplayed due to a low profile/visibility of the genre among the rock audience (and critics), so the spotlight is usually limited to electric blues and/or classical music as the principal sources of inspiration for budding rock explorers and iconoclasts. Glad to see you restore these often overlooked reference links. :)
     
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  13. Harrocks

    Harrocks Well-Known Member

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    love john marshall and SM of that era- what a groove when they first get going: as a (failed) drummer, that's absolutely 'it' for me.
     
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  14. AxiomAcoustics

    AxiomAcoustics "The enemy is listening"

    Good choices, and I also hear Kent Carter and.....Cornelius Cardew.

    I'm sure you guys know this one but it's a classic amalgam of what was happening with "Rock" bands incorporating sensibilities from the Euro/Brit "New Thing" as well as the Free-Improv scenes that were contemporaneous and preceeded it with hints of the Globe Unity Orchestra, Spontaneous Music Ensemble and AMM, to name a few.

    With Babbington, Dean, Charig, Wyatt......

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Jim Duckworth

    Jim Duckworth I can't lose with the stuff I use.

    Location:
    Memphis TN
    The Delta Saxophone Quartet's Soft Machine tribute Dedicated to You, But You Weren't Listening besides having Hugh Hopper on three cuts, really gives a fresh perspective on the band when you've exhausted the excellent recommendations in this thread.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    I'm back, having digested the Alive in Paris DVD (March 2, 1970). I'm knocked out by much of it. Holy macalony (a non-sequitor that a good friend of mine shared with me some 35 years ago), this is great stuff. I'm still trying to relate the tracks to the canon, but them's some silly out there, so it's a bit difficult. I know I promised regular reviews, but man this stuff is dense. I love that, but it makes my brain hurt. In an exceedingly pleasant way, I might add.
     
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  17. Musicisthebest

    Musicisthebest Exiled Yorkshireman

    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    I've just received an email from Burning Shed stating that 3 of Soft Machine's later albums are to be reissued in a box set.

    The Harvest Albums 1975-1978

    Note that the latest issue of Alive & Well is a 2CD version with additional live cuts on the 2nd CD. This material will be missing from this box set unless they squeeze 4 albums onto 3CDs. I've no information as to whether this will happen or not.
     
  18. jerrygene

    jerrygene Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Are the Sundazed CDs of 1 and 2 better sourced than the Big Beat cd? Comparable mastering ?
    For that matter are the bonus tracks found on the European Cds Of 1 and 2 elsewhere on cd?
    Thanks
     
  19. Musicisthebest

    Musicisthebest Exiled Yorkshireman

    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    There's a Japanese CD with bonus tracks for 1

    The Soft Machine* - The Soft Machine
     
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  20. hallucalation

    hallucalation Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere Man
    No, Sundazed sounds dreadful. Copy tapes. Like Polydor 2009
    Big Beat still remains the only source to use actual master tapes with original clarity.

    Now most likely original masters for Probe albums are burned at Universal fire in 2008....
     
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  21. jerrygene

    jerrygene Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    I will stick to my Bigbeat which is excellent clear and full but I am a bit surprised that the Sundazed is disappointing..
    So I guess the Polydors is a good alternative for the bonus tracks and having separate releases
    Thanks
     
  22. hallucalation

    hallucalation Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere Man
    There’s only two bonus tracks on Polydor and they are needledrops since master is missing. Nice booklets
     
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  23. jerrygene

    jerrygene Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Done thanks-
    Up next with cans will listen to my Trojan Man In A Deaf Corner -it’s been a while ——thanks
     
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  24. jerrygene

    jerrygene Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Well I am up to Third today on my CD copies and prefer the Best Value Cd CGK 30339 to the Original Album Classics one which is quite loud in comparison-interesting enough it has ADD inscription on the inner matrix -which master is this one ?
    Just wanted to add my impressions-
    Nonetheless it is a great deal for these 3-7 albums
    BTW Is the latest 2 cd (studio cd with the live edition) either of these? Or a new remaster?
     
  25. privit1

    privit1 Senior Member

    My big beat CD remains the best digital version of the first two albums.
    So freeking good
     
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