"The Genius Of Ray Charles", one of the greatest albums ever recorded, one of the worst sounding..

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    ray.jpg Really, I love this album. I have nothing bad to say against Bill and Tom except what the heck were they thinking recording this? I used to believe that the overload was caused because the Basie guys were playing so loud that it just pinned the meters on that old Ampex 300-8. Then I heard the same overload on the string side as well so it wasn't that. Maybe they:

    1. Didn't hear the overload because of the monitors they used.
    2. Wanted it to sound like that.

    What else could it be? It's obvious (from careful listening to the stereo and mono mixes) that the overload is right on the 8-track original tape (now deceased).

    Those of you who collect rare jazz 78's from the 1920's, remember the Brunswick "Light-Ray" records, made before Brunswick-Vocalion got the rights to the actual Western Electric recording system in 1928? It had dynamic range of about 6 db at the most and the records were cut with with like 1/2 watt amp. They had a gritty but pleasing sound (listen to King Oliver's "Wa-Wa-Wa") that reminds me of the sound of this album when "pushed".

    So, about 1994 or so I did a "remaster" gratis for Atlantic trying to "Iron out the rough spots" (as Don Covay would sing). Listening to it I realize it stinks just as much as the original CD version.

    The stereo tape is actually much more dynamic and tuneful than the mono tape, that I remember. What I didn't realize is that the best way to "handle" the sound of this monumental album is so simple, I didn't see it.

    I have an original first press stereo Atlantic LP (I believe it was Herb Abramson's actual reference copy) and I played it for the first time today, discovering that it sounds wonderful, much better than the raw tape, much better than the CD that I mastered or the reissue LP versions..

    Why? That was my question. My answer? Tubes. Gotta play back the thing on a tube machine and use valves in cutting. My original stereo press still has overload, yes. But when Ray isn't screaming his voice sounds spooky real and the stereo music spread is lifelike and natural sounding.

    I only wish I had thought of it when I was working on the dang thing. Too late now but my point is, if you can find an original press stereo LP of "The Genius Of Ray Charles" (NOT A SOLID STATE RECUT!) I think you will be in love with this album all over again.

    I vividly remember sitting on the stage at NBC "Color City" in Burbank watching Ray sing "Just For A Thrill" on the Carson show back in 1989 or so. It was a thrill for me and I got a tingle when I heard it on the LP today. You can too!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    More info: So if you have a second pressing (with the beautiful white label with the swirl in the middle and a thinner green and blue outline around it), it's a good one as well, as long as the MG number is hand written in the deadwax. ST-A/B-59161.

    So if you have a sixties recut it is probably good as long as the matrix is hand written. If someone has one, report back. I don't think they started using solid state cutting until much later.
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    There has been some confusion as to how this album was recorded. Atlantic's little studio was too small for all the players so they did it at A&R. I've long accepted as fact that they unbolted the Ampex 8 Track and took it with them. Even the tape files show that the album was done on 8 track. However, unless they took the special console that Tom Dowd designed, how would they have fed the mics to the various channels? So, I'm suspicious. On the other hand, nothing ever coming out of A&R from that era sounded that bad except this album. So....
     
  2. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    Is it ever really too late, Steve?
     
  3. dconsmack

    dconsmack Senior Member

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV USA
    What color is the center label on a stereo original? Are there matrix numbers to look for?
     
  4. And after all the trouble I went to to find a black label mono original...

    Drats!
     
  5. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    How does the tube cut lp compare to the mfsl?
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It is, yes. Isn't MoFi releasing this one on CD? The mono, right? Unissued since 1967! Neat.
     
  7. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    The only version of this album I've ever heard is the Rhino LP reissue. Not sure how that compares, but man, what amazing music. I've always been meaning to spend more time going deeper into his catalog.
     
  8. googlymoogly

    googlymoogly Forum Resident

    I didn't know Atlantic was recording to 8 track then...wasn't this album done in the late '50s?

    What did Kevin Gray use to cut the reissue from a few years ago?
     
  9. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
  10. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
  11. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    You HAVE to tell us how you acquired that! :)

    I have an early? '60s stereo pressing, not sure if it's a tube mastering or not. I guess I'll give it a spin tonight...
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Quickly, if you have a stereo second pressing (with the beautiful white label with the swirl in the middle and a thinner green and blue outline around it), it's a good one as well, as long as the MG number is hand written in the deadwax. ST-A/B-59161. It sounds quite beautiful, nice wide soundstage and great front to back depth.

    Probably the later green blue stereo label version is fine as well.

    So if you have a stereo sixties recut it is probably good as long as the matrix is hand written. If someone has one, report back. I don't think they started using solid state until much later.
     
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  13. Trainspotting

    Trainspotting Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I have the Mofi mono disc and I'm happy with it. Of course, I've never heard the stereo tape.
     
  14. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I got it from the legendary Leon Leavitt.
     
    vonwegen likes this.
  15. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    No kidding!
     
  16. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Will do tonight! No arm twisting needed when it comes to Brother Ray!
     
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Yes, I never even played it until yesterday. Had it all these years.
     
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    No one has a '60's pressing of THE GENIUS OF RAY CHARLES? For a while they were the staple of every thrift store in town..
     
  19. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I wonder if a de-clipping algorithm would repair some of the damage. Are the waveforms actually flattened and sheared off, like really slammed? This wouldn't be the first old LP I've seen that got super-compressed at some point, I assume for "creative" reasons.
     
  20. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Tried that in the 1990's. Made it sound worse. Sigh. Wish I had used my old Ampex 351-2-P with it. That would have made it more yummy sounding like the old stereo tube LP cuttings. My first pressing mono Atlantic LP cutting sounds dreadful, pinched and unmusical.
     
    vonwegen and EasterEverywhere like this.
  21. wcarroll

    wcarroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge, LA
    My copy is mono... I played it a few weeks ago and remember being real disappointed with the sound quality. Especially after reading the technical blurb on the back of the jacket describing the Ampex 300 and the microphones and the Scully lathe, etc. I thought I was in for a sonic treat. Guess I'm looking for a stereo version now.
     
  22. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Declipping is better now, but if it's really screwed, nothing can unscrew it. Been there, done that.
     
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Yeah. I also tried a few other "No-Noise" type things on it, there was a de-distortion-er as well that helped a bit but I felt it sucked a lot of wetness out of the signal (like any type of noise reduction would) and I didn't like that.

    Ah, well. Wish I knew what the hell went wrong during recording. It is the ONLY Atlantic recording I've ever heard that sound so messed up.
     
    vonwegen likes this.
  24. Peter Needham

    Peter Needham Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pismo Beach, CA
    From memory, I have a later 60s pressing of this with blue/green & white in the center, fan on the right.
     
  25. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    Only have the mono. It was asked earlier but what color is an original stereo label?
     

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