The Grateful Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JRM, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. Crazy Otto

    Crazy Otto Voodoo all night long

    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    It never comes so easy when you're living by the sword
     
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  2. Jerfan13

    Jerfan13 Makes wrinkles advertised as creases

    Do you think “Gentlemen Start Your Engines” would’ve seen the light of day in 2023?
     
  3. mikestar

    mikestar Friendly Optimist

    Location:
    Capitol Hill
    No, and I hated the lyrics at the brief time it poked its head out.
     
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  4. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    That tracks. Relatively few heads have taken the time and effort to listen to '78 and early '79, they have gone along with published opinions like those in the article. Rubbish!

    Each member of the band was into their own addiction and neurosis by the late 70's, and each individual contributed to any perceived diminishment in the overall musical experience. Once Pigpen left the keyboard player was always "the new guy," and the easiest to replace. Which is not to say that Keith & Donna did not have their individual and relational difficulties within the band, and the JGB, it was simply easier to scapegoat them.

    On a deeper level K & D carried the legacy of the band by having performed with Pigpen, and when they left they took a piece of that with them, and it was forever lost from the stage.

    Brent was JAG (just a guy) who brought his own insecurities but easily fit the arena rock sound the band was moving towards when he entered the scene. He made more noise onstage than Keith which fit with the times, more color yet far less musical intrigue. But the lead Garcia was beyond being able to handle that intrigue by the 80's, an organist can hang on the chord changes and fill the hall with sound. Playing in relationship a pianist as he did with Keith was no longer a "thing."
     
  5. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    28 March 1973- Springfield. It's an official release, but I never remember those numbers.

    This is one of those shows I wish I had seen. What a great time to have been 15 feet from the stage with Brother @Zafu and Uncle Albert! :agree:
     
  6. uzn007

    uzn007 Watcher of the Skis

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    Great song, and Jerry generally tore it up. I'd rather hear that in a first set than "Tennessee Jed" or "Looks Like Rain" any day.
     
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  7. Holler Wanderer

    Holler Wanderer Too much of everything is just enough

    Location:
    SW Virginia
    Don't take my TN Jed away, damnit!

    LLR, on the other hand...
     
  8. tobyd

    tobyd there can be only studio one

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Totally agree but this doesn't make me love Brent and what he brought any less - including the dark lyrics - which were authentic and from the soul. He was a troubled character, a solid counterbalance to the hippie ethos of the Dead - which was a mirage. I think Jerry himself was a darker character than he led on. I was listening to 5/14/83 the other day. The one with the first Bucket. The version of West LA Fadeaway is particularly gritty and I was just thinking, man Jerry was just a real cool guy. The Dead needed to wake up from the dream of the 70s and get real in the eighties. Sadly that reality was pretty dark too but maybe more real if that makes a lick of sense.
     
  9. LandHorses

    LandHorses I contain multitudes

    Location:
    New Joisey
    I agree about “Tennessee Jed.”
     
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  10. uzn007

    uzn007 Watcher of the Skis

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    While I certainly agree that there is a lot of "groupthink" in GD fandom (and music fandom in general), I feel like I should point out that two of the three "published opinions" cited in that Reddit post are from Jerry Garcia and Blair Jackson, so I probably wouldn't dismiss them out of hand. Like, I sort of think that whatever Jerry was trying to express, he had a much better understanding of Keith's "concept of music" than you, I, or the person who made that post.

    Part of the problem with that post is that the redditor is seemingly conflating numerous different criticisms of Keith's playing, e.g. I don't see how it could even be controversial to state that Keith started to rely more heavily on block chords and simple comping ca. 1976-79. I mean, the tapes are out there.

    As we've discussed before, one of the biggest changes was that prior to 1975, Keith had a huge role in defining the rhythmic feel of any given jam (along with Jerry, of course, and Phil, when he wasn't out where the buses don't run). Once Mickey rejoined, that dynamic changed considerably, with the drummers defining the feel and the band following along, more like a "normal" rock band.
     
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  11. JimSmiley

    JimSmiley Team Blue Note

    NP 03-28-1990

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. OmIsWhereTheHeartIs

    OmIsWhereTheHeartIs Forum Resident

    Location:
    BC, Canada


    He was a tortured soul from what I can tell.
     
  13. Even the band thought a tour itinerary like that was bizarre. And exhausting. Perhaps the main reason why Scully got replaced with Cutler.
     
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  14. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    The show in the 30 Trips box - 2/21/95 - is also worthwhile, and the sbd circulated by Charlie sounds virtually identical to the official release; the recording used by both is the same, and there isn't much mastering by either Jeffrey or Charlie.
     
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  15. That "reality" is a good deal more complicated than your framing. A stronger, healthier band would not have gotten involved so deeply in the things that started them slipping in the 1970s. But I'm not going to judge their choices too strongly, because I lived through the Eighties. And as bad as I find the crackpot realism that's run so much of the Zeitgeist ever since then, it would have been much worse if Jerry and the Dead had not been around at all. For all their faults, they were a legit resistance to the status quo. Not a willing part of it, the way some people think.

    The status quo institutional superstructure eventually finds a way to co-opt most everyone (that it doesn't crush, or reduce to total irrelevance) with fame and fortune, but I give the Dead credit for widening the cultural frame and the social conversation as part of that deal. The political order that defines so much of social reality also insists on a requirement for engagement with political power in order to effect societal change, which is its own can of worms. I think Jerry Garcia had that sussed. He had his own weird riverboat to captain, and not much was to be gained for that mission by getting entangled in those ropes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
  16. OmIsWhereTheHeartIs

    OmIsWhereTheHeartIs Forum Resident

    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Tennessee Jed is one of my favourite first set songs.
     
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  17. OmIsWhereTheHeartIs

    OmIsWhereTheHeartIs Forum Resident

    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Jerry plays the hell out of LLR though... and then there are the early pedal steel versions.
     
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  18. OmIsWhereTheHeartIs

    OmIsWhereTheHeartIs Forum Resident

    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Keith and Brent were totally different and represented two very different eras. But both are great.

    Just like how Pigpen and TC defined a different era as well and were different than Brent or Keith or one another.

    The thing I love about the Dead is that their sound DID evolve AND they continued to change it up and improvise right till the end instead of becoming a greatest hits act from the 80s on.

    You get the blues of Pigpen into the psych of TC into the jazz of Keith into the 80s blast of Brent and even the 90s sound of Vince and Bruce.

    It's nice having different eras. Keeps it fresh.
     
  19. Holler Wanderer

    Holler Wanderer Too much of everything is just enough

    Location:
    SW Virginia
    True. Sometimes I could do without it though, it's a song that bores me when they play it too often
     
  20. OmIsWhereTheHeartIs

    OmIsWhereTheHeartIs Forum Resident

    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Its one I didn't care for at first and I actually look forward to now. The guitar playing is so nice on it and I dunno... maybe I identified with the lyrics over time. It starts a bit corny, but it finds some real emotional depth in the second half and I find the Looks like rain, feels like rain coda with Jerry's playing absolutely beautiful. Especially on versions with Donna.
     
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  21. Holler Wanderer

    Holler Wanderer Too much of everything is just enough

    Location:
    SW Virginia
    I love Donna versions. I feel like Bobby sometimes made a joke of the song in later years with his shrieks and falsetto. Maybe that's what turned me off to it...
     
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  22. OmIsWhereTheHeartIs

    OmIsWhereTheHeartIs Forum Resident

    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Cocaine. Bob was a total goof in the 80s. Probably kept things lighter than the heroin infused darkside behind the scenes though!
     
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  23. KeithGodchaux

    KeithGodchaux Not To Be Taken Away

    Location:
    NJ

    Spot. On.
     
  24. MHam

    MHam Give Me Bass Relief

    Location:
    CA
    It makes me cringe when he drops F bombs in LLR.
     
  25. dsdu

    dsdu less serious minor pest

    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    [​IMG]
     

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