The Hollies: The Clarke, Hicks & Nash Years track by track discussion thread

Wow! This thread is blowing up. I’m sorry I missed posting a day or two, I got very busy. We will be back to our regular programming tomorrow! Until then continue to discuss!

 

I must have missed this thread; I've been diligently trying to keep up with the Smiths and Monkees track-by-tracks, and a third one increases the burden ...

I've only heard Ain't That Just Like Me which frankly isn't one of their better singles. I'll have to check out the other three tracks another day.

I left the UK in August of 1963 without ever having heard of the Hollies. All we had to that point as far as the British Invasion was concerned were Gerry and the Pacemakers, the Beatles, Billy J. Kramer and the Dakotas and the Searchers (if you don't count the Tornadoes, which no one seems to).

 

In the UK we were well aware of the original recordings of songs The Hollies covered - 'Searchin' by The Coasters reached no.30 here in 1957 while 'Stay' by Maurice Williams and The Zodiacs reached no.14 in the UK in 1961
- The Hollies faster version actually bettered that chart position by six places reaching no.8 in 1963 so it clearly had more appeal to UK record buyers overall

The Hollies were obviously aiming their records at their teenage fan base - most artists do target their records at their fans surely ? - which in 1963 was the fans at UK dance halls and clubs (such as the Cavern club in Liverpool, Oasis club and Twisted Wheel club in Manchester etc) who supported the band

the first UK no.1 in the early fifties was by Al Martino with 'Here in My Heart' in 1952 ! - so to assume that original American versions of songs were unknown or little known in the UK and Europe is incorrect

London Amercian (made here by Decca), Stateside (made here through EMI), United Artists, Warner Brothers, also HMV and Philips record companies were all regularly releasing American records in the UK well before the sixties 'Beat Boom / 'British Invasion' of groups came along, there were European releases too

- The Everlys 'Cathy Clown' Warners first single WB 1 was a no.1 in the UK in 1960 while guitarist Duane Eddy won the top musical personality poll here ahead of Elvis in 1959

so we were more clued up re original American versions of songs than some may assume

 

One big problem re The Hollies early on - and even later to an extent - was the group suffered from no real professional management as such, various figures filled all sorts of roles but they (like The Moody Blues as well) had no 'Brian Epstein' or 'Andrew Loog Oldham' figure to advise them and promote them

The Hollies were pretty much picked up by EMI due to the success of The Beatles sending Ron Richards up with early sort of manager Tommy Sanderson to take a look at the band who were getting good reviews and had been accepted by the Cavern club

EMI and other record companies suddenly realised if The Beatles could emerge (brought to London record companies notice by Epstein - and all bar Parlophone had rejected them !) then surely there must be other bands with record sales potential up north as well ?

Decca records made a right mess of The Big Three - a band rated even higher than The Beatles in Liverpool early on by the clubbing fans

Ron Richards liked what he saw and heard from The Hollies thus he invited them down to London for a test recording session in early 1963 - by which time guitarist Tony Hicks was in the band as Vic Farrell ('Steele') didn't want to turn pro

all went well but they never really had any kind of proper management where as say The Searchers had Tito Burns to promote them etc while Dave Clark (then if not in later years) was a shrewd and tough managerial figure who called the shots for his DC5 both here with EMI and re doing the States properly (even getting the accolade of an invite for The DC5 to play at the White House for LBJ !)


The Hollies entire USA thing was a poorly devised thing - mix ups over visas saw the band sit at London airport for two days in 1965 !

they never got on 'The Ed Sullivan Show' (even Freddie and The Dreamers who were largely a much loved comedy act here at home but only had a handful of UK hits over 1963-64 enjoyed big USA hits after appearing on Ed's show - 'Do The Freddie' sank here at home )

The Hollies early USA releases had scant promotion and early LPs were 'chopped about' plus there was no band promotion either, when they did arrive stateside it was on the 'Soupy Sales Show' at the Paramount theater in New York playing a couple of songs with several other acts on the bill

then work permit issues saw them having to sit in the audience at several USA TV shows they were supposed to play on further costing them vital American attention

later on when Epic records signed them and 'Bus Stop' hit no.5 in 1966 things suddenly improved dramatically over 1966-68 and they did 'Smothers Brothers Show' and 'Hollywood Palace' TV shows getting overdue American wider appreciation - they toured and did shows with Simon and Garfunkel and The Beach Boys plus a concert on a US Aircraft Carrier just back from Vietnam all of which went down well

Had The Hollies come under proper management earlier they could have been a key part of the 'British invasion' thing instead of something of an afterthought to it probably in many American music lovers eyes back then

Likewise here fine American bands like The Turtles and The Association were never given the UK exposure they should have received...even The Byrds were only seen here very infrequently unlike say The Monkees who took the UK by storm in 1966 thanks to a weekly TV show and a lot of radio airplay !

 

Today’s song is “Little Lover”



This one has a nice crunch to it. The rhythm section of Haydock and Elliot was a force to be reckoned with. Tony’s lead playing is steady and forceful and really chugs along with the rest of the song. Overall just a nice early rocker.

 

OK, I'm game for this thread. I will get more positive I promise:

Whole World Over - This has a huge Everly Brothers meets Buddy Holly "Maybe Baby" influence; as well as Please Please Me era Beatles. It is all the better for it. A pretty impressive first effort. 4.0/5

(Ain’t That) Just Like Me - This is a bit too corny with its nursery rhyme lyrics; and The Beatles beat "Yeah" influence lacks subtlety. 2.0/5

Hey What’s Wrong With Me - I can certainly hear the Duane Eddy guitar influence on this solid beat effort. Not good/not bad, but the Twist & Shout "Aahh" is jarring. 2.5/5

Now’s The Time - I really like the melody and harmonies on this track. It sounds like a middling Beatles album cut. Quite impressive. 3.5/5

 

It’s not an either/or situation. For many of us growing up in the early to mid Sixties, Fifties rock and roll was a bit of a mystery. So, while the US originals may well have been familiar to record buyers in the UK as a whole, the songs were fresh and new to an up-and-coming generation.

Just like me.

 

Little Lover - This is rather impressive for a May 1963 recording. Sure it wears its Beatles influences on its sleeves. But this is a very commendable effort & Clarke/Nash composition. 4.0/5

 

Little Lover
This one I rather dislike. The rhythm section is very good but what generally seems to be The Hollies' greatest asset - vocal interplay that is - IMO fails badly on this one. Whoever is doing the backing aah-aah-aahs, is doing a terrible job, but also all the call-and-response sections could be much better sung. Allan's lead is solid, but doesn't save the song for me. Composition-wise also nothing remarkable to my ears.

 

After listening to a couple of Hollies' songs for the first time, they sound like the Beatles's songs before 65. I guess that they all have that distinctly recognizable 60s sounding. The lead singer's vocal is even somewhat similar to the Lennon's. I do not know much of this band. Do they ever try to break the US?

 

In the case of "Searchin'," the original was released more than six years previous to The Hollies' cover, so a significant portion of the 1963 teen and pre-teen listening audience was not likely to be familiar with it, particularly if it only reached #30. And correct me if I'm wrong, but short of Radio Luxembourg, there were very limited opportunities to hear rock 'n' roll on the radio in the UK at all prior to the advent of the Pirate radio stations, no? So if you didn't already have the record in your collection, wouldn't a listener be unlikely to hear The Coasters' "Searchin'" on the radio on any kind of a regular basis once it had finished its original chart run?

That brings up a related question, and I'm asking you because I genuinely want to know. In terms of what could be heard on the UK radio airwaves of the day, was there a concept similar to what we in the US would call "Oldies"? That is, did any stations play songs that had been hits several years previous, or was the concentration almost exclusively on the hits of the day? Even in the US, "Oldies" were relegated to specialty programs on Sunday nights — radio formats devoted exclusively to playing Oldies didn't arise until sometime in the 70s, and they were only rarely, if at all, sprinkled in to a Top 40 station's regular daily programming.

In the case of "Ain't That Just Like Me," according to what I can find, The Coasters' original didn't chart at all in the UK.

 

They didn’t have as big of an impact in the USA as some other British Invasion groups, but still had some high charting singles and such

 

In addition to the much loved Radio Luxembourg there was BBC radio saturday morning shows such as 'Saturday Club' and sunday morning show 'Easy Beat' while BBC Radio Light programme - the forerunner of Radio One - did play pop records on daytime shows with quaint names such as 'Housewives Choice' and 'Family Favorites' etc while BBC's 'Pick of The Pops' radio show actually began in 1955

'Children's Choice' also on saturday mornings played requests from children including pop music

I know as I'm old enough to have been an avid radio listener back then in the late fifties and through the sixties !

also many youngsters got to hear the records their older siblings or uncles, aunts etc even parents bought - I had an uncle very much into popular music so I heard many of his records and I know many of my school friends knew them likewise

re the point concerning how you do a song (ie not taking a song about trying to get your girlfriend to stay at too fast a pace etc), there really are no hard and fast rules about arrangements

songs can always have lyrics totally at odds with the style of the arrangement yet still work perfectly o.k. and make a hit record

one notable example is Cat Stevens early mournful lament song 'Here Comes My Baby' sung in the first person about seeing the girl he loves out walking with another guy knowing that her love will never be his...(ah !)

so The Tremeloes take Cat's mournful song and change it about completely

they put it to a seemingly totally inappropriate contrasting Trini Lopez style 'party' singalong full of fun and laughter with Latin style percussion, speed up the song's slower original rather meandering tempo, put in a guitar hook (in place of the original version's sax) , change the lead vocal from a lone self doubting heart aching voice as Cat sang it to Dave Munden strident lead vocals ...and even drop Cat's only more positive final verse line in the song; 'you'll be mine to hold each day...' - replacing the last verse with cheerful harmony whistling instead !

logically no way should such a drastic re-interpretation of a lament song work at all as the sombre reflective lyrics are totally at odds with the new style of 'party' arrangement - but making no.4 in the UK and no.14 in the USA and re-establishing The Tremeloes as a chart band minus Brian Poole in 1966 suggests this radical seemingly wrong revamped style DID work...

so a sense of strict logic re how to do a song in a suitable style per it's lyric content doesn't neccessarily apply at all re making a song into a hit single, be it 'Stay' making no.8 in 1963 or this song charting in the top twenty in both UK /USA for The Tremeloes...

 

Little Lover - was the only original Nash-Clarke song included on their debut album 'Stay With The Hollies' and it still features original drummer Don Rathbone recorded on 15 May 1963

- you will notice the power and speed ability of Bobby Elliott when he debuts on 'Stay' in August 1963

note the stereo version of 'Little Lover' has a guitar lead in that is missing on the mono version while in stereo the second and third verses are sung in reverse order to the mono version

Tony Hicks is now joining in with the backing vocals here (singing 'ah-ah-ah' which someone disliked above !) while Clarke sings lead with passages by Clarke-Nash which is an early example of what vocally is to come from the group

no one clearly remembers exactly when it happened but very early on it seems that Tony just wandered too near to the microphones singing away while playing in the studio and his voice was picked up....changing their Everlys style duo vocals into something different, so they began adding him in initially doing the 'ahs' and joining in with Nash on any 'call and response' vocal parts behind Clarke's lead vocal

then they began using full three part harmony voices...

Tony didn't always remember to sing his vocal parts as recorded early on in any promo films having a tendency to just grin when the camera pointed his way

here is a restored early promo film with an extended version

 

Outside of Saturday Club (I'm not sure about Easy Beat), most of the programs you cite played "pop" music, as opposed to rock 'n' roll, did they not? I doubt there was much rock to be heard on "Housewives' Choice"!

The larger point is that US Top 40 stations, at least by the early 60s, were playing rock 'n' roll every hour they were on the air (dusk to dawn for "daytimer" stations, and more for those with more expansive licenses). By contrast, UK listeners' exposure to the hits of the day was far more limited.

I'm guessing this is why the role of NME was so crucial through this era. I imagine this publication was read by far more of the average listening public in the UK. In the US, we learned about new records by hearing them on the radio for the first time. (Only industry types read Billboard, which would be the US equivalent of NME.) I'm thinking that in the UK, you had to read about them, and then go out and buy them to hear them with any consistency.

I'm sure this is true in some instances. But I believe my point still stands that a relatively small percentage of the total rock listening audience in 1963 would have been familiar with The Coasters' original version of "Searchin'" when The Hollies covered it six years after the fact. And very, very few would have known The Coasters' original "(Ain't That) Just Like Me," as it wasn't a UK hit at all.

-- rest snipped --

Your example of "Here Comes My Baby" is an interesting one. I've been singing this song myself for decades, and it's a good example of the "music first/lyrics second" paradigm that is doubtless in effect for most casual listeners. A catchy tune sung/played with enthusiasm will often count for more than the lyrics to that same tune.

As I said earlier, you have to take it on a case-by-case basis, and I believe there are limits (e.g., my "Long Tall Sally" example). My entire objection, and what started this part of our discussion, was your criticism of the R&B originals for having "plodding" tempos, and your inference that these songs were better-served by their sped-up remakes. I will continue to disagree with this in most cases. I lodged a specific objection, and explained it in detail, in the instance of "Stay," and I stand by my position.

 

The Hollies' success in the US was nowhere near what they enjoyed in the UK.

Still, they had 12 Top 40 hits in America, six of which were Top 10 (and another just missed).

 

“Little Lover” sounds a lot like up tempo Beatles rockers, but it might be a little more hard-edged than anything the Beatles did until With The Beatles, and the Hollies harmonies set it apart. It’s not a great song, but not bad either.

 

Interesting video. Never heard "lover" before. Sort of a rollup of "the name of the place is i like it like that", Slow Down", and "Little Sister".

 

Lots of energy and some nifty guitar work by Tony Hicks on "Little Lover." Not the greatest song in the world, but fun for what it is.

 

One thing to remember re the UK pop music scene in the fifties was that pop meant popular - and largely that for many people buying records was NOT rock and roll but more mainstream singers - even in the USA singer Pat Boone was equally popular to Elvis at one point in the fifties which might seem crazy now but back then Rock and Roll was actually not the biggest thing at all to the mainstream record buying public hence stars like say Pat Boone, Perry Como, Mitch Miller, Guy Mitchell, Bobby Darin, Connie Francis, Neil Sedaka, and many more were all having regular big hits and the Rock and Roll artists really appealed to a percentage of the record buying public including younger people

- look how mainstream Elvis soon became too while Buddy Holly's final recordings like 'True Love Ways' and 'It Doesn't Matter Anymore' clearly saw him going more toward mainstream commercial pop and away from the guitar fronted sound

we might laugh now at that guy telling The Beatles 'groups with guitars are on the way out...' but NOT everyone buying records back then was a guitar music fan by any means so there would have been some credibility to what he told them before 1963

In the UK there were some artists who were aimed more at youth - Lonnie Donegan was a key music figure here introducing 'skiffle' plus folk, blues, and even religious songs to youngsters like John Lennon etc...

while mainstream big pop stars were Cliff Richard, Adam Faith, in Cliff's case strode a line between teenage mainstream pop and a rockier sound (Faith only occasionally then doing a rockier number) while a more directly Rock and Roll artist like Johnny Kidd and The Pirates sadly only enjoyed sporadic big hits as besides instrumental groups like The Shadows and The Tornados most chart artists before the UK 'Beat Boom' were more mainstream pop singers and that only really changed big time from 1963 but even then not completely

note how both Roy Orbison and Gene Pitney were virtually unaffected by the sudden mania for beat groups as the new bands did not impinge on their distinctive musical style

both Roy and Gene welcomed and helped bands like Beatles and Stones who were very grateful in return, while The Hollies love of Roy's music was evident in their early covers of both his hits; 'Candy Man' and 'Down The Line'

Besides the mainstream pop singers the black vocal groups such as The Drifters, Coasters, Impressions, etc were actually quite popular having chart hits in the UK hence why those younger musicians like the members of The Beatles, Hollies, Stones etc KNEW those fifties black vocal harmony group records and included covers of their songs in their live shows setlists

The Hollies even knew of County music too no doubt via their Everlys influence - Johnny Duncan and The Bluegrass Boys was a popular UK act ! (having a fifties hit with 'Last Train To San Fernando') - The Hollies covered Conway Twitty's hit 'It's All Only Make Believe' on their first album while Allan Clarke in concert in the 80's explained that 'Running Through The Night' was originally written as a county style number...they then played it as a acoustic guitar, banjo, and harmonica featured country piece which Clarke told us was the original arrangement

so while maybe Rock and Roll only had a limited radio airplay back then, more mainstream pop including black vocal groups did get radio airplay here in the UK, maybe more so than in some places in the USA in those days ?

today Rock and Roll is by many music writers seen as THE music... as if it was the only music of any interest and credibility back then, however at the time it was only a style of music that some people liked but not all by any means (some acoustic folk music and trad jazz music fans probably had a dislike for electric Rock and Roll)

- even in the sixties here in the UK the beat groups found more mainstream artists like say Ken Dodd (biggest selling UK single of 1965 with 'Tears'), The Bachelors, Val Doonican (his album knocked Sgt Pepper off top spot admittedly after a long stay at the top) , The Seekers (whose 'Carnival is Over' knocked The Beatles off no.1 in 1965) etc gave any group more than a run for their money chart wise right through the 'swinging sixties' !

here is another curious counterpoint number a sad song lyrics wise but put to an extraordinary upbeat if not positively cheerful style arrangement complete with more happy harmony whistling;

 

Today’s song is “Zip a Dee Doo Dah (Song of the South)”



This one isn’t particularly striking to me, although it has excellent vocals and good instrumental work.

I find it interesting that this song was originally written for the controversial Disney movie from 1946, “Song Of The South”, which has yet to be released on home video in the USA.

 

Little Lover = Fun, energetic playing but vocally meh.
Zip a Dee Doo Dah -Not a big fan of this one (instrumentally it' s great)

 

Didn't Burl Ives sing this in the film ?

Another song cut 15 May 1963 it was left unissued at the time finally appearing on a UK budget compilation LP 'The Hollies' in late 1988

not a fav song of mine, they do a cheerful brisk run through of probably a early live show number and it features some nice strumming of guitar and sees them working on their harmonised singing in the studio but besides that it's one for Hollies collectors mostly I would assume

 

The Hollies would have got this from the version by Bob B. Soxx and the Bluejeans. Their version, produced by Phil Spector, made it to #8 on the Billboard charts in 1962.

It's really kind of a novelty, but The Hollies give in their usual energetic approach.

I don't think I've ever heard this recording before. I don't have the set these tracks are being drawn from. Was it unreleased at the time? It doesn't appear on either the US or UK version of The Hollies' debut album.

ETA: I see Billo has answered my last question.

 

it was left unissued in 1963 and finally first appeared on the MFP budget UK compilation album 'The Hollies' released in late 1988 - along with two other then unissued tracks; 'Poison Ivy' from 1963 and 'Little Bitty Pretty One' from 1965