The idler-drive turntable appreciation thread

That's exactly what I've heard as well. Which is hard to completely qualify unless you're hearing them side by side. The fact the Thorens has an integrated armboard seems to result in seeing more ready-to-go-complete-with-ubiquitous-3009-arm 124s for sale. But in general it seems different people fall in love with one or the other for whatever reason.

 

Some gorgeous tables in here

 

My 1959 Garrard 301, it's in a slate plinth with SME M2-10 arm and Ortofon 2M Black cart.

Regarding the 301 vs 124 question above: I've also got a TD-124/II that I upgraded rather obsessively with Schopper & Swissonor parts that's fitted with a very nice SME pre-Improved 3009, but ultimately I just prefer the Garrard. There is not much in it though and I suspect a fair bit of it is the slate plinth and the arm. I need to figure out what to do with the Thorens as it's just sitting around as a rather beautiful ornament at present! I'll stick a pic up in a separate post as it is a stunner (I'm on an iPad so copying and pasting too much risks losing my typing!)!

 

The 124/II!

 

That Garrard is just beautiful.

 

Tony's got some real stunners...

As I recall, you spent quite a lot of time, energy and £'s getting your Thorens up to snuff. You had some difficulty finding a quiet one too, right?

I was extremely lucky to score my TD-124 for a reasonable price. It needed very little work and was a quiet one from the start. It was either babied and/or didn't get much use from the original owner.

 

On the subject of armboards, I've tried both rosewood and slate on my Thorens, and hated the slate. It did a very poor job of filtering out motor rumble. With a rosewood board and phenolic washers between the chassis and board, it's extremely quiet.

 

Great looking table. It seems rare to see 301's with anything but long bases and 12" arms. Anything go into your decision to go with that particular arm?

 

I used to have a 1009, but I swapped it with my uncle for an American Standard wind up horn model. I still have a 1219, but, to be honest, I prefer my belt driven CS-5000 by quite a margin.

 

I bought an HK ST-5 that some fool had etched his name and SS# onto. I know they didn't think about identity theft the same way back in the 80s, but what a way to destroy and aluminum plinth.

 

Yes, by the end I'd paid a simply ridiculous amount of money, and to be bluntly honest I paid it because, in the UK at least, almost all third-party TD-124 belts are stupidly tight and basically just wrong, i.e. the thing that was actually making the noise was a very cheap band of rubber! Predictably I only tracked it down to this once I'd splashed out on fancy black-iron platters, expensive new main bearings etc!

The problem is the TD-124 motor pulley can fit on either way up, you use the larger end in the UK for 50Hz voltage, and the thin end for 60Hz voltage. Now all the belts I tried that are made now and claim to be for a TD-124 seem to be too tight on th 60Hz pulley and just crazy tight on the 50Hz one. Tight = noise in the stepped pulley/idler area. As soon as I bought a belt that was the length I thought it should be rather than the people selling them wanted to sell, i.e. tight enough to stay on and drive the stepped pulley perfectly/start the platter up real quick (it gets up to speed in one revolution) the noise just vanished. Doh! as they say. The whole saga is documented at huge length at my site (pfm).

FWIW I'm not in any way disapointed or annoyed as it was genuinely interesting to really get to understand how these classic turntables work in minute detail. I've always been good with mechanical things so the only way anyone would know I'd had it spread over the carpet in bits many times is it's spotlessly clean inside! The only problem is I don't really know what to do with it now as I'll likely not get my cash back if I sell it. Maybe swap it for something, I've no idea, but it's doing no harm just sitting around doing nothing for a while so no need to rush that decision. It can sit there for years as far as I'm concerned. Every now and again I spin it up and play a few records as it is fun to use!

 

I've definitely heard of issues with not-quite-right belts and TD124s. It seems odd the aftermarket can't make a belt the right size!

 

No, only that I consider it to be a very good arm, a real sleeper in fact, it just gets ignored by the audio press for some reason. It looks a bit odd on the 301 as everyone is conditioned to see a 3012 or Ortofon 309, but I can live with it and it's a great match for the 2M Black, just perfect mass/compliance wise. My regret with that deck build is I didn't go for a slightly larger plinth and two arms as I've got what can only be described as a collection of 3009s! I've got four of the things, I've no idea why, they just seem to turn up! No point in selling them as they are going up in value more than my savings, so I just have them sitting in mugs as ornaments! Would be nice to have one set up on the 301 as a mono arm for old jazz albums.

 

The belt is definitely a source of noise.

My TD-124 would start making a tic-tic-tic noise after a few months, which required me to pop off the platters and thoroughly clean the motor pulley; the noise was from belt residue offsetting onto the pulley. I thought the problem was the belt, so I replaced it, but the noise kept coming back.

Finally I got smart... I put some Flitz metal polish on a Q-Tip and smoothed out the surface of the pulley. The noise hasn't returned for a while, so I think that fixed the problem.

Especially since Thorens still offers belts for it with their logo printed right on it!

 

I guess the advantage of a transcription table is you could in theory have a second plinth to put it in from time to time, or at least begin work on another one while still using your current one. This is similar to my thoughts on idlers, I'm seriously close to just buying a 301 deck but not necessarily completing a build and putting it into service as my daily driver, I mostly just want to secure one for a rainy day. As you say, its an investment with a better return then most if nothing else!

 

Huh, I wasn't aware of that. When I read people were using belts from old VCRs I just took it for granted there wasn't a factory option!

 

I've had my share of Duals: 1009SK2 - 1216 - 1218 - 1219, all moved along, and just now parting with my gorgeous 721 (not idler, I know).

I can't resist them, and can't seem to keep them either.
I still covet a 1019 like the OP has, or his Thorens. Or his Rek-O-Kut. Okay, I better not go near his house.

1218 was new in box!

1219, dead sexy!


1009SK2, never should have sold it...

 

Heh heh.

With the real German-made Dual plinths too, not the more common (in the US) United Audio plinths!

Incidentally, my 1019 is a bit of an oddity in this part of the world... it has the size selector indicated in centimeters, not inches, plus it has a voltage selector under the platter. Someone must have brought it back from overseas, possibly while they were stationed at a military base in Europe or something.

 

I put together a PTP Lenco last year. I'm using a Jelco SA-750E tonearm. It sounds fantastic!

 

Va va VOOM!

 

I was never an idler drive fan before, but I got this Dual 1229 from Vinyl Nirvana for mono LPs and 78s and it's amazing...

 

My idler interest started with a Dual 1019, which is now with a friend. I developed an interest in the European tables early on, bought a few of them inexpensively and kept the two that I like the most. One is a 1958 or so Thorens 124 and the other is a 1966 or so Garrard 401. They were each in the best mechanical condition of any of the turntables I found at the time. The 124 is running on its factory original belt! I have reconditioned it a couple of times by boiling it in water with baking soda added. I've also done this with the rubber parts on a pre-improved SME 3009 that serves as the arm on the 124.

I enjoy them both quite a bit. I imagine I'll get a performance jump by giving the 124 a heavy plinth. For now, it plays 78's superbly and I'm about to get a mono cartridge for it. The 401 is already in a heavy plinth and it sounds superb.

 

Anybody tried a passive idler wheel on a beltdrive or DD. Might have the same effect on the platter.

 

My TD-124 was in a box plinth when I got it, and moving to a layered plywood plinth made a big improvement in bass weight and tightness.

My old ROK was VERY noisy in its box plinth, but moving it into an 8-layer 24" x 24" plywood plinth completely tamed the rumble.

Interesting idea. Much of the slam of the best idler decks is due to their very heavy platters, which most belt-drive tables do not have.

 

What Sun 78 is that? COOL!!