It's a sort of intentional misdirection that creates the ambiguity. - The continual rapist identikit picture. - The implication of being a voyeur of his own daughter getting dressed, twice. - The intentional ambiguity of the bikini photo shoot - The woman getting off the train, somewhat freaking out, with the implication that she sees the traveler as the rapist. - on several occasions behaving as if overly interested in attractive women walking around. - the implication of infidelity, even though it eventually appears to have been imagination. There is a continual stream of implication, and even though it doesn't necessarily balance off with the general story and isn't logically the point of the movie, it is emphasized so much that it becomes, as we've seen from many posters perspectives, their interpretation, that this benign middle management schmo is a predator.... It is the same problem that I have with Art Lover..... The redeeming line in Art Lover doesn't work as well as it should, because the implication is slathered on too thick for the "a ha" moment to work properly.... and at the end of the day "She's just a substitute For what's been taken from me" Could well be referring to innocence taken from the protagonist that he now seeks to try and get back, by taking it from other innocents.... particularly with the statistics we know about the cycles of abuse. So I understand the twist Ray was going for in both instances, but unfortunately in both instances the twist was too heavy handed to work properly. ... and that's very disappointing from my perspective, because I personally love it when an artist exposes me for my judgements, because it causes me to recalibrate myself.... which I think is the point of these types of films/songs
New Dave interview to tie in with his 2nd autobio (released today!) The usual pr*ck tease for life long Kinks reunion chasers like me: 'Does that mean new Kinks stuff is on the horizon? “Well, Ray and I have spoken over the last year and are trying to put some stuff together. I don’t know how it’s gonna turn out but I’m optimistic there’s something there.” New songs? “Yeah, songs.” Gigs? “Yeah, it’s not out of the question. I’m very excited about my own writing too. There’s a lot ahead for me and the Kinks.” He smiles. “Maybe the best is yet to come.” The Kinks’ Dave Davies: ‘Men have feelings too. We’re not just cannon fodder’
Voices in the Dark Yes, very ‘80’s, but also very good, and as was mentioned earlier, it would have served as lovely incidental music for Miami Vice, maybe as a pensive Crockett and Tubbs cruise through a darkened underpass whilst recognizing they chose the same pastel blazer. @Fortuleo, I see we concur about Arcade Fire; their album The Suburbs is somewhat Kinksian in its themes, don’t you find? I think for this project, it was an example of addition by subtraction.
Also from a few weeks back, an interesting podcast interview with Pete Quaife's bother Dave, including some discussion of Pete's Veritas books. I know @DISKOJOE has said he recently acquired these: I'd be interested to see what he thinks of them and how worthwhile they are as a read for Kinks fans. I must admit that I tried reading the excerpts that are available on Amazon and I wasn't that taken, mainly because I guess knowing that's it's a fictional story but heavily 'inspired' by his time in The Kinks frustrates me cos I wish he'd just written a straightforward account. But I do think: 'that's two entire books about being in a band written by the other Kinks founder: I really should get around to reading them someday!' Heck, I read Rays short story book and it only took by 20 years to get around to it. The Signal - Dave Quaife discusses Kinks founding bassist Pete Quaife and 'Veritas'
Well, we should make a bet, then, I’ll read Veritas before you watch Help! But seriously, I’m planning to read both volumes this fall and I’ll keep everybody posted on how I feel about them. I also have Dave’s new bio winging it’s way here that I’ll probably hopefully read before the summer’s gone.
"Voices In the Dark" Synth pop Ray! I love it, and think it's a perfect closing song for this album. On my album it states that this song is only 1:25 long. When I first played it, I was confused. I was expecting a short instrumental to end the album, but we get another great song. I wonder if that is a typo on all the LPs or just certain pressings? Everyone is mentioning Ultravox/OMD and they were also the first bands I thought of. I never listened much to Midge Ure era Ultravox in the 80s, but lately I have been loving the first three 70s albums with John Foxx. Systems of Romance is a brilliant album and considered one of the earliest synth pop albums, for anyone who likes this sort of thing. Arcade Fire annoys me, but I have to agree that there is something in this song that clearly resembles a style they have touched on. Wow! What an excellent little album. My only wish is that he would have saved all of these songs for this album, and came up with a few more for Word of Mouth. I would love to find an interview where he explains why he put the songs on both albums. I still have to watch the film all the way through, but I love every song on this album. Nicely done Ray!
Voices in the Dark Yes OMD, Ultravox (have been listening to the Vienna LP lately whenever I drive at night, it just fits), and I hear some backhanded lyrical/musical tributes to Eyes Without a Face (1983). Maybe because this wasn't on a Kinks release with an (un) intentionally ambiguous title like Give the People What They Want I don't have any of the "oh RD is trying to incorporate some contemporary sounds" reaction to this one. It's more.... post-modern pastiche, like when Jarvis Cocker does his thing. Speaking of Cocker, RD is such a crooner on this one, & like some of the other songs on this really truly criminally neglected LP, VitD feels effortlessly heartfelt and inspired -- like RD has mastered his metier (sorry French-speakers, don't know how to do the accent aigu on this keypad) and can now just sort of exhale a beautiful song... which is such a huge contrast to so many '60s artists in 1985 that RD seems to be violating a law of physics or something. And weirdly for an LP without Dave and during a period in their relationship that couldn't have been easy, I get some strong Dave influences, not musically but, shockingly, lyrically. Not that the lyrics ever devolve into what my HS english teacher called "transcendental moonshine," but I get a bit more of a mystic, spiritual vibration from many of the RtW lyrics here than I do from other RD songs of the period. Maybe it's best that I haven't seen the film yet. Not only because I'll bring a bunch of *professional* baggage to watching it, but because I can affirm that these songs work as stand-alone RD compositions. Don't want to get too deep into the "disdain" conversation again but want to affirm that, without watching the film, the lyrical thematics go w/ Soap Opera, Shangra-la, Get Back in Line, etc etc for me -- gently observational, slyly empathic, and never cruel or condescending to the common non-rock star commuter. Unfortunate that I've been so busy, there's a lot to comment on re RtW, but I like every song on it that wasn't thrown onto WoM.
There were two US pressings of the LP and one Canadian pressing and that's it. One of the US pressings (plant unknown) and the Canadian pressing have the correct time for this track listed at 4:25. The other US pressing (identified as the Indianapolis plant) has the incorrect 1:25. My copy is this same incorrect Indianapolis showing 1:25 as yours, so just a typo on this one pressing.
Yes, we saw a 11 inning game vs the Red Sox and the Sox came away with the win. I really loved Wrigley! Seems to be a bit more updated than Fenway. For one, the sightlines are better...if you sit on the first base side near the outfield in Wrigley, you don't need to crane your neck all the way to the left to see who is batting. Fenway is crazy! And the knee room is better than Fenway. But obviously Fenway has its own charm, but if you're over 6 feet tall you must curse being there. LOL
Ladder of Success On its own, it's not anything special, but it works in the film. Not much more to say. Going Solo Obviously a slightly different context and feel in the movie compared to hearing it on the prior album. I woke up singing this song actually. And it's really growing on me! and gotta love how Ray sings "solo"..."so...low".
Soon after Return To Waterloo, Roger Deakins directed a few classic videos. I can never hear these songs and not think of the videos. "Something About You"- The train scenes could be right out of Return To Waterloo. "Rockit"- Herbie Hancock https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHhD4PD75zY
Return To Waterloo – The Movie And The Album The film came first and the album 7 months later, the last release on Arista. These two things are linked of course and maybe should not be separated, but in my mind, they are different entities serving different purposes and intentions. I think Ray might agree since the album was a bit later and most of the album versions differ from the film versions in various, sometimes subtle ways. Not drastically different, but enough to think he felt he had to do more work on the album itself after the movie was released. I think he had designs on trying to make sure the album could stand on its own outside of the movie even though it's pretty short for an 1980s album (only 32 minutes including three previously released tracks, but that's another discussion). The problem was the limited release. No one bought it, as no one knew about it and they could not find it. Only released in the US and Canada??? You could say no one saw the movie because they couldn’t find it either . I’ve watched the movie again just these last two weeks a couple of times after not seeing it for two plus decades. Doing it the way we have done here and reading everyone’s thoughts, both negative and positive, I’m understanding the soundtrack album’s songs and their contexts in a different light with the visual presentation. Plus the fact the movie has no dialogue puts greater importance and emphasis on the songs and the lyrics in the production. For me, the soundtrack album had always been just the album between Word Of Mouth and Think Visual. As for the three tracks that had previously been issued on Word Of Mouth, I had always viewed these tracks as being part of that album and just bonus tracks on the Return To Waterloo soundtrack since it's so short. But now I’m having different thoughts about this and am coming around to these being more integral to the movie and thus the soundtrack album and now feel they are bonus, and possibly extraneous tracks, on WOM. In my mind these tracks now strengthen the RTW album and actually weaken WOM and I’ve never had that thought before. I'll stay out of the film wrap discussion as there are many of you here that can and have articulated those thoughts and references to spectacular degrees and far better than I could ever hope as I'm no movie expert. I could not tell you the last time I saw a movie in a theater and it had nothing to do with Covid. I honestly don't remember as it's been so long ago. On Demand TV, OK sometimes, but if my choice is to watch a movie or to listen to a couple of albums during my limited spare time, I’ll choose the latter 99 times out of 100 usually. That's just the way it is . But I’m coming away with a greater appreciation of the soundtrack album and it stands on its own just fine despite the short length. I add tomorrow’s song “Quiet Life” as a bonus track when I listen to the RTW soundtrack as it was recorded at the same time and helps lengthen the album a few more minutes. It makes the album feel more like an album time wise, even though it doesn’t fit thematically or soundwise. And there’s nowhere else for it to go anyway! Both the WOM and RTW albums are good, not great, and both are a missed opportunity in a lot of respects: Dave is missed for bringing that special thing he always brings musically and vocally on the songs he does not appear. The redundant tracks between both knowing what we do now that there was other material already recorded and available that did not see the light of day until years later that could have been used such as "Once A Thief" or "Entertainment". Ray said the soundtrack album was a good album but it could have been a great album had Dave taken part and that Dave let him down. Anyone keeping count of how many times Ray let Dave down? The songs’ arrangements don’t leave any room for guitar solos due to the songs being used in the movie (other than the short one in “Sold Me Out”). I'm sure this is by design. I wonder if those discussions were had ahead of time between the brothers where Ray might have articulated this and Dave bowed out for this reason. I’ve never read this anywhere and neither brother has said as such so that's just an idle speculative thought I had. Whatever the reason, a lost opportunity despite the strengths that are here. I had no other expectations with the soundtrack album coming into the discussion this week as I’ve had it since release, but the fact I have shifted my thoughts a little on both albums here after seeing the movie again is coming as a bit of a surprise to me, but a nice one. Not sure how often I’ll watch the movie again if ever, but the albums will continue to be part of the regular listening rotation as they always have, but with a little different perspective on both.
[="Brian x, post: 29942214, member: 136962"]Voices in the Dark Yes OMD, Ultravox (have been listening to the Vienna LP lately whenever I drive at night, it just fits), and I hear some backhanded lyrical/musical tributes to Eyes Without a Face (1983). Maybe because this wasn't on a Kinks release with an (un) intentionally ambiguous title like Give the People What They Want I don't have any of the "oh RD is trying to incorporate some contemporary sounds" reaction to this one. It's more.... post-modern pastiche, like when Jarvis Cocker does his thing. Speaking of Cocker, RD is such a crooner on this one, & like some of the other songs on this really truly criminally neglected LP, VitD feels effortlessly heartfelt and inspired -- like RD has mastered his metier (sorry French-speakers, don't know how to do the accent aigu on this keypad) and can now just sort of exhale a beautiful song... which is such a huge contrast to so many '60s artists in 1985 that RD seems to be violating a law of physics or something. And weirdly for an LP without Dave and during a period in their relationship that couldn't have been easy, I get some strong Dave influences, not musically but, shockingly, lyrically. Not that the lyrics ever devolve into what my HS english teacher called "transcendental moonshine," but I get a bit more of a mystic, spiritual vibration from many of the RtW lyrics here than I do from other RD songs of the period. Maybe it's best that I haven't seen the film yet. Not only because I'll bring a bunch of *professional* baggage to watching it, but because I can affirm that these songs work as stand-alone RD compositions. Don't want to get too deep into the "disdain" conversation again but want to affirm that, without watching the film, the lyrical thematics go w/ Soap Opera, Shangra-la, Get Back in Line, etc etc for me -- gently observational, slyly empathic, and never cruel or condescending to the common non-rock star commuter. Unfortunate that I've been so busy, there's a lot to comment on re RtW, but I like every song on it that wasn't thrown onto WoM.[/QUOTE] Speaking of Jarvis Cocker, have you heard of his cover album of 60s and early 70s French pop songs that he sings under the name “Tip Top” released in conjunction of the Wes Anderson film The French Dispatch?:
Thanks for your reply, Avid Wondergirl. Wrigley is a bit updated than Fenway since it’s only 107 years old to Fenway’s 110 . The oldest ballpark besides those two is Dodger Stadium, which just turned 60 like me. I can’t believe the number of ballparks that have been built and torn down over my lifetime.
I must be in the minority that doesn't think Dave would have improved the songs on Return To Waterloo. I guess I will wait and see what he adds to the songs on Think Visual and UK Jive, but I think Ray would have been better off without Dave's guitar jamming style in the 80s. I like that the songs on Return To Waterloo don't have any extravagant guitar solos. I could be wrong and maybe Dave would have added some tasteful touches, but I'm liking Ray's more bare bones approach. It helps that he had good songs to support this direction.
It's all about the Benjamins though. those old stadiums were maybe for 30K people...they want more bums in the seats so down come the old parks. Luckily they were able to do a few additions to Fenway (like the monster seats were a stroke of brilliance).
I’m thinking about places like the Kingdome, Three Rivers Stadium, the two Atlanta stadiums, Arlington, TX, all of them which held a lot more than 30K, but replaced anyway for shinier stadiums. Fenway and Wrigley have been spared this, but I remember plans for a new Fenway Park before the current owners took over the Sox.
I didn’t phrase my comment very well. I understand all the “clues” in the film that you and others have highlighted. When I first watched it that’s the way I was leaning too. But I was more persuaded by the fantasy/daydreaming aspect - and argued that angle when we talked about the early songs. Had Ray never given that interview, we could have these two entirely valid interpretations of the movie - our individual Rashomon effects. But Ray told us what the story was about: the traveller is someone who “fantasises about taking action” And “dozens of random thoughts helps him get through the day.” I’m actually disappointed that Ray peeled away the mystery in that interview. Movies, like good songs, should be left for the viewers to interpret in their own different ways.
What interested me most in Return To Waterloo the film was the Traveller’s story as it connected to his family, his wife and daughter - the visuals over Ray’s music do a great job portraying their complex characters and relationships in lieu of dialogue. I don’t know enough about film history to know if this approach was unique or groundbreaking, but in my experience this was an unusual but compelling way to tell a story. However, when the scope broadens to the Traveller’s position in modern society, and then further to modern society’s reflection of the disappointments in postwar Britain, I felt less engaged, and probably being an American has something to do with that - I imagine a native would have a much stronger connection to that aspect of the story. I admire Ray’s ambition though, to communicate so many complex ideas with merely sound and images. [I think in writing that I now understand what Scorsese was saying about it being a genuine silent film]. And, the ambiguity! As far as I know, Ray wasn’t under oath during that MTV interview. And he left out a rather important detail when describing the Traveller’s memory of his daughter when seeing the woman on the platform turn her head! This is why, as I’ve said before on this thread, my perspective is always to let the work of art speak for itself. So with that said, again, I have a couple more crazy ideas to share with you all regarding our Traveller. First of all it struck me that the continuous appearance of the rapist wanted sketch throughout the film could be thought of as the man’s conscience constantly reminding of his shameful acts, or even forbidden thoughts. They could be telling him that if he wasn’t such a terrible person his daughter would not have gone away without even leaving a phone number where she could be reached. Everywhere he looks he sees his face and is reminded that he is guilty, a sinner, a despicable person. Which leads to my next idea - at the start of the film, the Traveller passes Ray and then follows the young girl down to the subway platform. After leering at her, and then striking and screaming at the vending machine (and I love how we get a series of dramatic shots of the scream echoing throughout different areas of the underground - I know I’ve seen something similar done in another movie I can’t think of) the subway train approaches. The music here builds in intensity and there is a sense of foreboding as the train moves closer. The old woman on the bench looks up from her babbling, we see the train approaching and it almost looks like the Traveller himself is standing at its front window, so that he’s watching his own arrival. We then get a closeup of the Traveller’s face; the lights of the oncoming train illuminate his features, and he steps toward it - and the look on the Traveller’s face at this moment is one of utter and complete desolation - it’s the look of a man that wants to throw himself in front of that train (incredible acting by Ken Colley here). At that instant, we see the man’s entire day (life) flash before his his eyes … then we’re back at the kitchen table with his wife - at the start of the day that culminates in that moment. Does he throw himself in front of the train, or face yet another day? I guess we’ll never know, because the Traveller’s day keeps looping back on itself again and again, without any resolution. As for the soundtrack, I always have trouble with songs plucked out of a movie, I think the combination of music and visuals affects me with such intensity that often there is a deflation when hearing the songs out of context. I do have the vinyl LP now and will spend more time with the new songs in the future. But really, to my surprise, I was completely engrossed in the film during our discussion and wasn’t much motivated to examine the songs independently of it. Ray did a fantastic job integrating the songs into the film, in my opinion.
Return to Waterloo (film) - I watched this with only partial attention, but it was better than I expected. I haven't spent time analyzing it but your thoughts have been interesting to read. Frankly, I appreciated hearing Ray's comments afterward about the film depicting the thoughts and fantasies of the traveler because at least it gave me a reason for the traveler not to be the rapist, which was just too dark for me. Return to Waterloo - I would have liked for several of these songs to be on a Kinks album, especially "Not Far Away" and "Expectations." Heck, I would just like to be able to download them. Maybe someday...
No, and damn! But my father-in-law (just a couple of years older), sitting next to me, said after the first notes "oh, French Dispatch." I'd like to hear from the French here how this sounds to them.
Quiet Life. This is a song from the Absolute Beginners movie from 1986. Absolute Beginners Theatrical release poster Directed by Julien Temple Written by Richard Burridge Christopher Wicking Don Macpherson Produced by Chris Brown Stephen Woolley Starring Eddie O'Connell Patsy Kensit David Bowie James Fox Ray Davies Anita Morris Steven Berkoff Sade Adu Cinematography Oliver Stapleton Edited by Gerry Hambling Music by Gil Evans Production companies Goldcrest Films Virgin Films Distributed by Palace Pictures Release date 18 April 1986 Running time 108 minutes[1] Country United Kingdom Language English Budget £8.4 million[2] Box office £1.8 million[3] Absolute Beginners is a 1986 British musical film adapted from Colin MacInnes' book about life in late 1950s London, directed by Julien Temple. The film stars Eddie O' Connell, Patsy Kensit, James Fox, Edward Tudor-Pole, Anita Morris, and David Bowie, with featured appearances by Sade Adu, Ray Davies, and Steven Berkoff. It was screened out of competition at the 1986 Cannes Film Festival.[4] It received coverage in the British media but was panned by critics and became a box office failure, although modern reviews have been more favourable.[5] Bowie's theme song was very popular in the UK, spending nine weeks on the charts and peaking at number two.[6] The commercial failure of Absolute Beginners and two other films is blamed for the collapse of British film studio Goldcrest Films.[7] --------------------wiki------------------------------- David Bowie– Absolute Beginners Sade– Killer Blow The Style Council– Have You Ever Had It Blue? Ray Davies– Quiet Life Gil Evans– Va Va Voom David Bowie– That's Motivation Eighth Wonder Featuring Patsy Kensit– Having It All Working Week– Rodrigo Bay Slim Gaillard– Selling Out Jerry Dammers– Riot City Gil Evans– Boogie Stop Shuffle (Rough And The Smooth) Tenpole Tudor– Ted Ain't Ded David Bowie– Volare (Nel Blu Dipinto Di Blu) Clive Langer– Napoli Jonas (24)– Little Cat (You Never Had It So Good) Gil Evans– Absolute Beginners (Slight Refrain) Gil Evans– Better Git It In Your Soul (The Hot And The Cool) Laurel Aitken– Landlords And Tenants Ekow Abban– Santa Lucia Gil Evans– Cool Napoli Smiley Culture– So What? (Lyric Version) Gil Evans– Absolute Beginners (Refrain) The album charted in Australia at 85 and that was probably largely due to Bowie's title track which was widely liked as far as I can tell, and charted at 5 in Australia, and was top ten in many countries. Quiet Life. Something's happenin' but I'm just gonna turn a blind eye. If I see no evil, I ask no questions, and I hear no lies. Can't communicate with minds that are small, With some people it's like talkin' to the wall And a fellow who walks away, Lives to battle another day. And I've really got no appetite for a fight, Not tonight. All I want is a quiet life. Anything for a quiet life. No ambition to rock the boat When I can just stay afloat. And be content with a quiet life All I want is a quiet life. Anything for a quiet life. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil at all. Confidentially, between these walls, I'm on top of it all. I'd rather have 'em think I'm deaf, dumb, and blind Than aggravation every time I speak my mind Keep schtum and have a quiet life. Anything for a quiet life. I could easily blow my top, Start a row, But why start now? Give your daddy a quiet life. Give your mamma a quiet life. Anything for a quiet life. [instrumental section] Give your daddy a quiet life. Give your mamma a quiet life. Anything for a quiet life. Confidentially, between these walls, I'm on top of it all. Written by : Ray Davies Published by : Davray music Ltd? This is classic Ray to my ears. It could very easily fit in with some of the sixties albums, and uses the kind of arrangement and style that was almost the Kinks calling card. It seems he was perhaps asked to make this tune for the movie, it's that Klassic Kinks style of track. It goes somewhat Big Band as well, so it ends up somewhat being the perfect amalgamation of the Pye and RCA eras of the band. This is lyrically about turning the other cheek in order to avoid contention and confrontation. We get a final request to the kids to not shake things up too much, because mum and dad just want a quiet life... We've fought our battles and we are tired of them, so keep it on the sunny side, and laze on a sunny afternoon. I really like this track, and I hadn't heard of it before.
