The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. jethrowup

    jethrowup Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Not a fan of this one. I like the opening guitar and I like the "hold my haaaaaaand, hold my haaaaaaand, hold my hand" bridge part, but I don't like Dave's vocals in this one and I don't think the lyrics are particularly interesting. Also, as others have pointed out, the rehashed VGPS piano riff bothers me. It just seems sort of lazy. I do like the key change later in the song...I don't think The Kinks did that sort of stuff too often. Kind of cool. As others have pointed out, it's weird this was an A-side...I think it's one of the weaker "solo" songs he had recorded at the time. How did he go from this to "Mindless Child of Motherhood" in 4 months or whatever? Or "Strangers" in just over a year?
     
  2. jethrowup

    jethrowup Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    The piano riff is the same as the piano riff in "The Village Green Preservation Society."
     
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  3. donstemple

    donstemple Member of the Club

    Location:
    Maplewood, NJ
    I think I may actually prefer the Hootie & the Blowfish version of this :thumbsup:

    (edit: I am joking)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
  4. Steve E.

    Steve E. Doc Wurly and Chief Lathe Troll

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    It's not hard to be erratic! Especially if you are churning out a lot of recordings under pressure, for several projects at once. He also did the superior "Lincoln County" in prior months, and the superior B-side ("Creeping Jean") near to this time.

    It's more notable and perplexing that it was shoved out there as an A-side than that it was attempted. Also notable that its B-side ended up on an earlier 3-CD VGPS box, and this one was left off that box.
     
  5. Martyj

    Martyj Who dares to wake me from my slumber? -- Mr. Flash

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    I’ll take a wild, 100% speculative guess why this was deemed worthy of “a” side status while arguably superior Dave solo cuts weren’t, based on insight gained from my tangential career in publishing and marketing.

    Positives are safer bets than negatives. With knowing nothing of this song’s lyrics or music, a potential buyer is likely to be attracted to the positive implications of “hold my hand” (including its associations with similarly titled proven winners, e.g. “I want to hold your hand.”) more than a title that contains the words “creeping,” or “mindless,” or even “weep.” That’s not to argue the merits of the actual song or to deny the fact many negative words in titles have become beloved, iconic classics. Rather, it makes it easier to imagine a cautious Pye executive—already burned by a Dave solo flop and acknowledging that taste in music is subjective—hedging his bets wherever they can be found.
     
  6. idleracer

    idleracer Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    :kilroy: My first exposure to this was also via the "Kollectable Kinks" bootleg. All these decades later, it still makes the same impression that it did when I first heard it. It's sounds like Procol Harum's "Salad Days (Are Here Again)" played sideways:

     
  7. Toad of the Short Forest

    Toad of the Short Forest Forum Resident

    Location:
    90220 Compton
    Hold My Hand

    Probably the first track on this thread I can admit to not liking. It's still a Kinks (or Dave) track, so I by no means hate it and I still find myself listening to it from time to time, but I do find it a bit disappointing. And Dave was very good at writing around this time, too. He had a lot of great songs to choose from from the "A Hole in the Sock of" shelved LP. I personally think that Mr. Shoemaker's duaghter would have been a good pick... or Climb the Wall but idk if that had been recorded yet.

    I like the keyboard parts in Hold My Hand. The mellotron in the background and the piano and the key change are the best parts.
     
  8. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Sound logic.
    Although a bit sad that this is the game being played
     
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  9. seanw

    seanw Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    If the piano part was replaced or supplemented with Dave's guitar, that might have given the track a bit of 'oomph' and made a weaker tune more distinctive. Not that it would have helped the single's sales necessarily, but given Dave's talents, it seems a shame to waste the opportunity.
     
  10. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    When she lays on my bed,
    It's not me she's thinking of, it's just me that really cares


    Ouch!

    Hold My Hand

    Not much to recommend this song for me, other than the occasionally powerful on liner as noted above. Musically not very interesting and overall lyrics that don't quite reach their potential.
    The vocal occasionally sounds like Dave trying to be John Lennon and I don't even like it when John Lennon is John Lennon.
     
  11. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    I have no idea what this means but it made me laugh.
     
  12. jethrowup

    jethrowup Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I'm not the biggest fan of Lennon's voice either, but I'd much rather hear Lennon's voice in this song than Dave's. His vocals are so bad in this. He sounds like a 16 year old from a pop-punk band in 2002...like Blink 182.
     
  13. palisantrancho

    palisantrancho Forum Resident

    "Hold On My Hand"

    This is a new one for me. I have to agree with most of the comments so far and think it's pretty weak for a single. However, I think it has some nice moments.
    This is a great observation and I was thinking the same thing especially around the 1:40 mark. The melody and the vocal could be mistaken for an early Badfinger tune. I think it would have been fine as a solo album track, but we are in peak Ray and Dave territory and this one doesn't really cut the mustard. This is the first little dip in quality in quite awhile.
     
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  14. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Hold My Hand
    First time hearing this...and the first I knew that this song even existed.
    I'm feeling some Dylan on this.
    and someone brought up there's a bit of a VGPS (the song) riff here and I so hear that. good catch.
    I don't think this is single-worthy, but I'm diggin' it. I love when Dave hits the high notes.
     
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  15. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Exactly!
     
  16. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Ooom Pah Pah!
     
  17. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    Just discovered this 1997 release by a group not called the Kinks today, but it looks suspiciously familiar....
    [​IMG]
     
  18. jethrowup

    jethrowup Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I’ve never listened to them but Carrie Brownstein, the first woman pictured, went on to co-create and co-star in the show Portlandia with Fred Armisen.
     
  19. Steve E.

    Steve E. Doc Wurly and Chief Lathe Troll

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    Sleeter-Kinney were/are a big deal.
     
  20. CheshireCat

    CheshireCat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cheshire
    I do enjoy the acoustic tracks Dave cut for the 'Unfinished Business' compilation, which I think improves 'Hold My Hand'. It works well in this new arrangement.
     
  21. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Do You Wish To Be A Man?.

    stereo mix (2:42), recorded 20 Dec, 1968 at Polydor Studios, London

    All the things you like to do,
    Are not easy things to do.
    Are you troubled by the bad things in your life?

    If you're worrying 'bout a rest,
    And you can't get it off your chest,
    Just lie down and try to ease your mind.

    If your mother comes 'round the bend,
    Come to give you a helping hand,
    Do you wish to go and bury your head in the sand?

    Oh, do you wish to be a man?
    Do you wish to be a man?
    Do you wish to be the one to understand?
    Oh, do you wish to be a man?
    Do you wish to be a man?
    Oh, do you wish to be a man?

    Well the misery is yours,
    If you hide behind that door,
    If you hide behind the troubles in your life.

    You haven't got a friend,
    And there's no one to take you in,
    Will you come in, stretch and stand up on your own?

    When you know that your time has come,
    And there'll be no place to run,
    There will be no time to bury your head in the sand.

    So, do you wish to be a man?
    Do you wish to be a man?
    Do you wish to be the one to understand?
    Oh, do you wish to be a man?
    Do you wish to be a man?
    Oh, do you wish to be a man?

    Do you wish to be a man?
    Do you wish to be a man?
    Oh, do you wish to be a man?

    Written by: Dave Davies
    Published by: ?

    This seems to lean toward trying his hand at the semi-folk kind of song, and as @ajsmith pointed out earlier in the intro to the album, it is this sequencing at this point of the album that little thought seems to have been thought about in the sequencing. None of these songs are bad at all, but back to back they leave the album with a little bit of a lull early on. After such a wild and wooly start, the album slips into a bit of a one paced ballad-ish feel, and then comes out of it.
    I think this would work as an album much better if more thought had been put into the sequencing.
    Although this will likely get more Bob references, I don't think this is really in the Bob mold so much.... but it does bring something vague to mind.

    We have the idea being put forward of what does it mean to be a man to some degree. The societal need for men to be independent and strong and the bravado of standing up alone and taking all before you. The need to be seen to be in control and removed from Mother's help comes out in the first section..... It has always been a huge put down to a guy to suggest that they need their mummy/mommy ... as if it is some kind of negative to get assistance of some sort from a female figure in your life.... it is a scenario that only men will really understand ....

    It seems like the scenario that is being looked at in the second verse section, is the fact that men tend to hide their weaknesses, because it is unacceptable for men to require help ... or at least that's how it used to be. Stand tall and take it all on the chin, and don't dare show any kind of doubt, or weakness.

    It's actually quite an interesting lyric and speaks to Dave's sensitivities to some degree. I think the verses are really quite good and thoughtful. I don't dislike the chorus, but again it tends to go on a little more than does it any favours. there is nothing wrong with it really, but I don't think it quite hits the mark.

    I think the musical arrangement is good. We get a fairly standard kind of ballad chord progression, and a steady beat, in a moderate tempo. I think the harmonica adds some nice atmosphere too.

    On the whole I like this song, I think it touches on some interesting things, and is likely some form of self examination, but by the same token it also has an open enough series of thoughts that it isn't totally personal. Although the chorus relys too heavily on one line, the harmonies are really nice and soften that somewhat.
    A good song that is a good album cut, and some better sequencing would give this song more impact.




     
  22. croquetlawns

    croquetlawns Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scotland
    When all is said and done, I don't think that Dave is anywhere near as good on ballads as he is on rockers. I also find the chorus a bit repetitive.
     
  23. ARL

    ARL Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    "Do You Wish To Be A Man"

    Never heard this one before, and I quite like it. Pleasant enough tune, and although like with yesterday's track the chorus seems to drag on for too long, it comes out all right in the end. Sounds like it should be track 2 of side 2 of the album.
     
  24. notesofachord

    notesofachord Caution (Do Not Stop on Tracks)

    I love “Hold My Hand”. It gets stuck in my head all the time.
     
  25. Fortuleo

    Fortuleo Used to be a Forum Resident

    With a little more work (especially on the chorus, yep), Do You Wish To Be a Man could’ve been the third big song from those solo Dave 68/69 sessions. The passionate delivery, the byrdsy but scruffy verse (the verse has a late Byrds/ early solo McGuinn feel to it), the big sing along chorus… It’s almost incredible how some of those Dave songs foreshadow a lot of the 90’s americana/power pop resurgence. We’ve already mentioned Golden Smog (a supergroup with the leaders of Wilco, Jayhawks, Soul Asylum and even the Big Star drummer Jody Stephens). Those guys did cover Ronnie Lane, Big Star and Dave Davies, but even their originals have this unmistakable Dave Davies/(Small)Faces/Badfinger poppy but raged feel to them, and a lot of the same minor aching chord changes. You might also want to check out some tracks by the great Elliott Brood: one of the singers seems to channel his inner screaming (but melancholic) Dave all the time. It’s one of the charms of the pendulum of pop influences that Dave would become even more of a cult favorite than his big brother at some point, and that his influence would end up being so huge for many great musicians not in spite but because of his relative underexposure. And in the end, when we listen to some of his most obscure tracks, like Do You Wish To Be a Man, they sound almost prophetic and he appears to be a pioneer of sorts, like he managed to foresee or invent a style that would only blossom some 25 years later. It’s the kind of pop time paradox I never get tired of.
     

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