We could have a field day analyzing these lyrics: “In a deep hole lies a body Looking for a crack up in the wall.”
I think that "If You Are Leaving" could have fit on Muswell Hillbillies, with its blues/folk feel. All they had to do is add some horns & it could have been the "Dave" song on the album. Now a slight detour backwards. I was on the Elvis Movie thread where I commented how Ray submitted a song for use in a Elvis movie. One of the thread participants replied w/the following YouTube thingie of the song in question:
That's what I was trying to get at when I said that the relationship between Ray & Dave changed in the 1970s. Sure there were the fights in the 60s, but Dave also stated that he didn't want a solo career because he wanted to stay in the Kinks. I think that Dave's complaints about Ray being a vampire & other not nice things started in the 70s when Ray gained complete control of the Kinks.
!!!! How did I miss this! I’d heard about this song by title, but I didn’t know it had actually been on YouTube since February of this year! It’s never been on a physical bootleg AFAIK.. it must have only surfaced recently. Must admit I had my doubts if it was actually Ray singing on first listen, but I’m now thinking it does sound like him on certain other recordings circa 1964-5. I do wonder if it’s the Kinks backing him though. I mean it could be, but it doesn’t sound distinctive enough to me to be 100% sure, and sessioneers were used on other demos he did from that era, so who knows…. But goddamn! Roll over Doug Hinman and tell Andrew Sandoval the news! Wish we’d covered this one on the thread at the time!
If You Are Leaving I had never heard this track before. I think it is really great, and would have fit very nicely on Kinks albums of the period. Ronnie Lane has been mentioned in the thread before, and to me this really sounds "Lane-like". It is great to hear Dave branching out. The previously Dave solo tracks we have heard were just Kinks tracks in disguise, produced by Ray. This is sort of Dave's true debut.
Hmm, I don’t agree with this conclusion. Producing (and even songwriting) don’t have to be a package deal as part of a musician’s solo debut.
The Good Life I'll just echo what now seems to be a very common thought on these unreleased tracks. That is that it makes some sense they didn't make it on the album... but they are far too good to be left behind. It seems The Kinks had a whole katalog of discarded tunes that would outshine many artists bests.
If You Are Leaving New to me also. Better than expected. This is a very fine acoustic blues and Dave delivers it really well. I call this a keeper.
Here's the commentary by Forum Member Czeskleba from the Elvis Movie thread which accompanied the YouTube video. I speculated that Ray originally submitted the song around the time of Roustabout: "Actually, it was Spinout in 1966. Ray wrote a song called "Never Say Yes" (apparently, they approached different songwriters with "write to order" requests for specific song titles that would emphasize plot points in the movie). Rays 's song was rejected in favor of the submission by Pomus and Shuman. I can see why, too. Pomus and Shuman wrote a song about being carefree and not tied down to one woman. Ray's song has more of a suspicious, "don't trust anyone" feeling which reflects his unique sensibility but probably isn't quite what the filmmakers wanted. It is a shame though, as it would have been fascinating to hear Elvis do a Ray Davies song. It's interesting that there are some lyrical similarities in the two songs, which makes me suspect they gave specific instructions to the songwriters about what they were looking for, beyond just the title: Ray: Kiss the girls and tell them that you'll love 'em and you'll never let 'em go Pomus/Shuman: Tell 'em that you love them so/You hate to leave but you gotta go Ray: I got everything I ever need/Guess I'll always love this life I lead Pomus/Shuman: That's the kind of life for me/Being free like I want to be"
I reckon in light of a new discovery.... Tomorrow is just the Golden Hour compile, so let's look at this song properly tomorrow with that compile, as they are sort of from the same zone. That way we can focus on Dave today
I really like ‘If You Are Leaving’. I agree it could have been the ‘Dave’ song on Muswell, maybe as a more abstract ‘prison’ song in place of ‘Holloway Jail’ (though actually I think ‘Holloway Jail’ is a highlight on Muswell so feel free to ignore this). As the only 1971 era and earliest song on the Decade comp and the only one to feature Avory, it feels more like it might have had a chance of becoming an actual Kinks song and could have been slipped onto the contemporary LP as is, whereas by the 1973 tracks Ray and Dave are poles apart and you certainly can’t imagine those solo Dave songs being incorporated into the ‘Preservation’ albums!
If You Are Leaving First time hearing this, I've had it on loop this morning for about an hour. I like the transition from the first folky section to the bluesy section. It seems gradual and flows nicely. The bluesy section I don't think is strong enough to stand as its own song, so in my opinion it works as a bit of a change-up in this track. I like the acoustic guitar sound throughout. Some thoughts on the cryptic lyrics: "In a deep hole lies a body, looking for a crack up in the wall. 'Though the world treats him bad, there's a smile upon his face." - is this the death of the clown? perhaps the "smile upon his face" is face-paint/makeup, and the "crack up in the wall" is the makeup cracking on his chin. And the "deep hole" is the sadness/depression. "The begging blind naked sniffing dirt from the churches behind." - Is this supposed to be some kind of naughty metaphor? Seems like there is also a word or two missing in that line that would have it make more sense. The begging blind naked... what? Man? "Sacred hope for the weak and deluded pride guide for the kind." - I like this line a lot. It reminds me of some of the verse lyrics from Strangers. What I particularly like are the extra descriptors. It's not just hope for the week and pride for the kind, but sacred hope and deluded pride. Although I'm not sure what the word "guide" is doing there. Seems not needed?
Were there other Dave Davies solo tracks recorded before then that were not actually performed by The Kinks with Dave pushed out front?
I’d have to use Mark’s handy index to check but I guess I just don’t think that’s a issue. Rod Stewart has the rest of The Faces behind him on at least one album and he gets to categorize it as a solo album. And as for Dave, he did have a couple of solo singles that were hits. Anyway, I do understand your reasoning and position.
"If You Are Leaving": Dave Davies' singing has come a long way. Not sure the change from the beginning section to the belting section works especially well. Maybe would have been better as two separate songs. Hard to say as it's not much more than a demo. Maybe that would have been corrected or arranged for a smoother transition or something more complementary if the band had worked it up into a finished track. Sometimes Dave's lyrics put Bob Dylan's singing voice in my head. Trying singing this with your best Bob impression voice and see how much it sounds like Bob could have written a chunk of those lines. Great guitar playing and nice parts he came up with. Is that a little backwards guitar right at the end? 4/5.
To the best of my knowledge all the Hidden Treasures and Kinks tracks were with the band. This seems to be a solid decision to use other people, but you'll notice most tracks are primarily just Dave, and I wonder if he had his own equipment? I also wonder if the other players were dropped in later?
"If You Are Leaving" I remember being excited about this release and then being very disappointed with it. I thought I downloaded the album, but I no longer have it so I must have deleted it. I think as the Decade goes on I become less and less of a fan of Dave. I do like some of these earlier songs, and it will be interesting to listen back to all these songs and see what turned me off from it. I really like this song. It has a Rod Stewart vibe and would sound right at home on Gasoline Alley. It would probably be regarded as a classic if it was a Rod song. I'm not sure where this would fit on any upcoming Kinks album. Possibly could have been his attempt to get a song on Muswell Hillbillies, but I don't think it would quite fit. It also reminds me of Steve Forbert who could have resurrected this song in 1979. It even has a Pogues feel when they were without Shane. This makes sense as the second album without Shane starts with the song "How Come" which is a cover of a Ronnie Lane song. So it all comes back to Dave really being on the same musical wavelength as Ronnie Lane, The Faces, and other related artists. Someone already mentioned that his phrasing and lyrics can be compared to Dylan. I can hear that as well. Good job Dave! Wish we had more 1971 Dave!
I like this. 70s production values, but with 60s melodic sensibilities. 0:00 - 1:06 and 2:27 - 2:59: P.F. Sloan 1:07 - 2:26 and 3:00 - 4:15: Bob Dylan The meter of the Bob Dylan sections kind of reminds me of "She Belongs To Me."
If You Are Leaving One quick listen and going to work so this may be a bit skewiff? (mend the fuse) I like Mick's drums on the folly intro part/s and I like Dave's playing on the bluesy sections in particular the acoustic licks and yes can hear that Rory Gallagher touch. I had also independently thought of Dylan's vocal phrasing and meter and somehow thought of Rita Mae though only a line here or there. Somehow I also found myself thinking of Steve Marriott singing The Universal for it's off the wall whimsy and non linear or nonsensical lines. Just rambling here and in closing I must conclude that the two parts do not maketh a good marriage fit!
In anticipation of the Percy discussion I received the DVD in the mail today. It will probably be a watch it once and a return. It looks pretty bad, but maybe with low expectations it will be better than I expect? Does anyone know if most of the soundtrack songs are actually featured in the movie? Also, I am sure that Mark is on top of it with all the information, but I wonder what the story is with The Kinks doing a soundtrack to such an odd film? Anyhow, I'm looking forward to watching it in the next day or two.
Just today I found a Japanese c.d. of "PERCY" + "DAVE DAVIES-THE ALBUM THAT NEVER WAS"...not familiar with "PERCY" but I already had a Japanese album sleeve c.d. of the DAVE DAVIES album.nice sets both.
If the Pomus & Shuman song that got used in the film instead is any indication, when the producers put out a request for a tune, they must've been really specific about everything. Title, meter, tempo, length. Only the chords are slightly different.
If You Are Leaving First time hearing this. It's a grower. Hearing some Dylan sounds (maybe that can't be helped since there is some similarities between Bob and Dave's voice. ??). Also some of the lyrics are "kooky" like early T Rex. Like what does "The begging blind naked sniffing dirt from the churches behind" mean? who knows, but it somehow sounds ok singing it. I like the middle bit "If you are leaving won't know which way to go." Overall it doesn't sweep me away, but I think it's pretty good.
