This is my problem with the all of Linn upgrades. Updrading a Linn seems like it is an infinite money proposition. To keep a Linn fully up to date, it seems like you need to spend at least $1500 every two years. And that is just nuts IMO. I was actually very seriously thinking about breaking my long practice of refusing to participate in the endless upgrades on my Linn until I heard that this bearing won't fit a pre-circus subchassis. Now that I know that I would first need the Circus upgrade just so that I can throw it away, this upgrade is no longer an option for me. Frankly, I'm really feeling quite disgusted after learning this.
It's hard to fault a product that's been on the market for nearly 50 years, and yet every single component of it can still be replaced or upgraded. Such long-term maintainability is one of the reasons that I bought an LP12 about five years ago. My LP12 was first built in 1974, but the only original parts still on it are the outer platter, the dust cover, and most of the plinth (which had reinforcements added to its corners). Among other things, it now has a Mose Hercules II power supply (external), a prototype subplatter and armboard made of Corian, and a Tiger Paw Tranquility magnetic bearing support. I just replaced the original pre-Cirkus bearing with a Cirkus last year, so I won't be getting a Karousel anytime soon. But it's nice to know I could.
There's no requirement to keep an LP12 fully up to date. Just replace/upgrade parts as needed. And if you want a Karousel, you don't need to buy a Cirkus bearing first, just get any Cirkus-era subchassis (from Linn or aftermarket). The <$2000 in parts/upgrades that I've spent over the past 5 years will probably keep mine in good working condition for the next 20 years, other than the cheap stuff, like new springs and rubber grommets every 5 or 10 years, and an occasional drive belt or bearing oil.
I'm well aware that there is no requirement to stay up to date. But the reviews of this upgrade are so universally great that I would be seriously considering doing this upgrade. However a new subchassis will probably double the price. So I'm disgusted that for half the price of a new Technics 1200G I can get my Linn about 1/8 of the way to being current. I've read extremely mixed reviews on the 3rd party subchassis. So I have zero desire to go that route. If I have to buy a Circus Subchassis just to qualify, then I'm just not going to upgrade at all.
Fair enough. The standard Cirkus subchassis is nothing special. Indeed it's kinda crappy sheet steel, which is why I mentioned aftermarket, of which there are many different models and materials on the market. Surely at least some of them are very good. However if you want to do just one upgrade at a reasonable price, my suggestion would be the Tiger Paw Tranquility, if you can still find one. (They're apparently out of production now.) I first installed the Tranquility when I had the original pre-Cirkus bearing and subchassis, and it made a very noticeable sonic improvement.
As I said if you are not mesmerised into buying into the continuous upgrades sell on Ebay and buy a 1200G or another quality turntable. I'm confident you will get something that will compete with most Linn configurations and save yourself money in the long run.
I work with someone who owns a pre, pre-Cirkus LP12, Valhalla and Ittok, but who has heard a Majik spec LP12 with Jelco arm and Karousel what they think today (socially distancing).
I predict it will be a huge upgrade, in part because the old bearing is worn out, and has become quite noisy. jeff
A used Cirkus sub-chasis can be bought for £110 from any linn dealer. If you want the Majik sub-chasis it is £330, new, probably be had cheaper used. A Kore would be £800 and therefore double the price but that would be a significant upgrade in itself.
Do you hunt every linn thread out to post the same comment about technics 1200g? Have you heard a technics side to side against any of the current lp12 models?
I’d love to know what these « continuous upgrades » are that he refers to. Until this year and Karousel, the last upgrade I made to the deck was the Lingo in 1990 - a device that has been on night and day ever since, never missing a beat.
Yup agreed. Whilst at uni plenty of my friends had 1210s of various ages/mks for dj'ing. Fun at the time but not even a patch on my previous planar 3, never mind my LP12. Though I'm certain the newer technics would be significantly better and I wouldn't offer an opinion without having listened to them. I also wouldn't consider my past experience of technics, in anyway, a valid experience to offer a substantive opinion on those newer models.
Having heard the Technics 1200G and the flagship 1000R, I still wouldn't swap one for my Linn LP12. The 1000R is a far superior sounding table to the 1200G...IMO.
The beauty of the LP12 (and other long standing components) is one can use a version from 1975 and be happy. That said, there are many ways in which the basic table can be upgraded. In fact one can very quickly approach the point of diminishing returns. I have a c/late 80s LP12-Vallhalla-ITTOK table, and I am contemplating value focused upgrades. From what I have determined, the moste cost effective upgrades are 1) bearing, subchassis and inner platter/ these have to be done as one upgrade because changing the bearing means a new subchassis 2) Power Supply. One can look for a used Linto 1 or 2. Naim Armegeddon Mose Hercules II With careful purchcases, once can accomplish these upgrades for less than $1k and maybe closer to $750. (Removed, but still working parts have residual value that will offset costs.) These upgrades will, IMHO, move the listening experience to roughly the point of diminishing returns because to achieve greater improvement one would have to spend vastly larger sums of money.
Quite. In my opinion the « huge sums of money » spent on an Ekos, a Lingo or a Karousel are largely offset and indeed rendered cheap by the fact that they still perform without interruption years later, without fail. I have never felt the need to buy a better tonearm; the notion of a « better power supply » fills me with derision. They work. They last. They actually work out cheap, over time, owing to their longevity. How many other modern components can one say the same of ? As for Karousel, that was the one « upgrade » that appealed to me. Coupled with lockdown, it seemed apposite to me and I’ve never looked back. Will it still be going in thirty years ? I’ve every confidence. Will I ? Not so much.
He has owned his (approx 1983) LP12 for over 20 years and when I gave it a once over a dozen years ago I realised that I had serviced the same turntable somewhere around 1990! The expensive upgrades? Glued sub-chassis, laminated armboard, ball bearing for motor, diode upgrade for Valhalla and 1990 spec springs grommets. Later a new cartridge and several replacement stylus. He followed @Classicrock's advice and listened to "the cheaper" Michell Gyrodec (he needs lid), with HR power supply and technoarm A. He loved the styling and sound and that may well have been that, but the shop had two Majik spec LP12's, The outgoing Cirkus bearing with the Pro-ject 9cc arm and the then new Majik LP12 with Jelco arm and Karousel. People can work out the maths, but in his words, "that Karousel's a f***ing game changer!" Unfortunately because of Jelco's sad decision to stop making tonearms the Majik spec LP12 will have a price rise because of the increased cost of the Krane, but the reaction of people who have heard the Karousel (with Majik spec sub-chassis and power supply) is amazement at the performance upgrade. Using ex-dem, or part exchange parts, people with a pre-Cirkus spec LP12 can have a Cirkus power supply (Basik but does the job!) Cirkus sub-chassis and Karousel kit for somewhere around £1100-1200, which whilst still not being cutting edge, may give another 30 years of pleasure with no expensive upgrades required. My work colleague is now left with a dilemma which I don't believe he was expecting. BUT, his LP12 is still performing very well on original motor and as the bearing has never been contaminated or abused, a still good condition black bearing with white liner / inner platter. He is well aware that a 1983 spec LP12 (it has small corner fillets) is not state of the art, but it doesn't get in the way of listening to a lot of LPs. It isn't compulsory to upgrade!! From a personal perspective and not running any turntable for well over a decade, bearing in mind I haven't heard a Karousel, or Cirkus sub-chassis, my favourite upgrade was a Lingo (and I have heard the big improvement that a Lingo 4) brings and the Cirkus bearing kit upgrade gave a very welcome and big improvement), the Karousel has to be absolutely fundamental to performance if it is bringing jaw dropping and expletive ridden improvements with the very rudimentary Cirkus power supply. @Eamon, if I was in a position to drop a Karousel into a donor LP12, for the small cost difference between the Cirkus sub-chassis and s/h Majik sub-chassis, I simply would not pay the market value that the Cirkus sub-chassis is fetching. All of the Cirkus kits I fitted back in 1993-1995 came with the steel sub-chassis, there is now obviously a world-wide shortage! @TarnishedEars, have you heard a Karousel yet?
FWIW, and as an aside to the thread topic, I have an early-1980s LP12, with a Basik Plus tonearm. Originally fitted with a K9 or K18 cartridge, can't recall which. Over the years, I have; Topped up the bearing oil Replaced the '33rpm' belt once (I have the pulley sleeve for 45rpm, with its own belt) and occasionally cleaned the pulley contact surfaces on motor pulley and inner platter Replaced the cartridge, with first an Audio Technica AT-OC5, then Ortofon Quintet Red Replaced the lid hinges For much of its early life, I never switched it off; left it running 24/7, ready to go at any time. It's never been anywhere near a dealer for a 'service'. It's only now that it's beginning to show its age, with the armboard not quite level with the plinth, the suspension bounce not quite the perfect up-and-down motion, and some motor noise. And the little rubber bumpers at the front of the lid have fallen apart. However, a friend who has an almost-bang-up-to-date LP12 (unsure of its full spec, but certainly with an Ekos and upper-range Linn cartridge, newer base and outboard power supply) visits occasionally, has a listen, and says "That's sounding good" Not bad for an almost 40-year-old piece of kit. I've lost count of the other bits of gear I've had that have been far younger than the Linn, and which have fallen by the wayside. Various cassette decks, amplifiers, etc.
I went for the cirkus sub-chasis as I was also getting a lingo4 and a Roksan nima so had to cut funds somewhere. Eventually will trade up to the Kore. I did also mention the majik sub-chassis as an option in my post. My father has a 80s lp12 with a basik plus and got a cirkus bearing and majik sub-chasis a year and a half ago. It is pretty good warm sounding TT. The rest of his system is much better than mine but my LP12 smokes his. There is more detail, a fuller sound and better punch and timing. Appreciate there is a different arm and power supply but the Karousel also is a large part of this difference.
I guess for anyone wanting a Cirkus, or s/h Majik sub-chassis, it is probably a good idea to be on the books of your local Linn dealer for a part-exchange. I checked on a well known selling site yesterday and most of the Cirkus bearings were being sold without sub-chassis. I didn't realise (or remotely given it any thought) that Linn had stopped supplying a sub-chassis in the Cirkus kit, but that is entirely logical. As most of this is pretty irrelevant to me, I haven't asked any Linn dealer contacts about the difference between Cirkus and Majik subchassis, though I would think there were many dems when the Majik sub-chassis was first introduced. So for all those who believe it is only cartridges that make turntables sound different, a bearing upgrade would be too much to swallow!
@Randoms I have not heard a Karousel yet. I'm not sure what I would learn by going to my local Linn dealer to hear one either since not only is the system completely different from my own, but so is everything else which is mounted to my LP-12. I have one of the most unusual LP-12s that you will likely ever encounter having an ET-2 Tonearm mounted on my Linn. I love this arm, and have no plans to ever part with it. But this is totally different than any arm which I might hear at my local Linn dealer. Also, I am driving mine with a Pheonix Labs power supply, which functions as my poor man's Lingo. I upgraded my springs and motor bearing in 1986. Mine has the old white bearing, as well as the original subchassis. So I literally have no way to legitimately compare the sound of the upgrade alone, even if I had both TTs hooked up to the same system.
I have heard the ET2 arm mounted on a Linn, it used be a popular combo back in the 90's. I think it is actually a great sounding combo, and really like what the ET2 arm can do on the platform. I don't blame you one bit for wanting to keep that arm. OTOH, i can tell you with some certainty that the new Karousel bearing would be an eye opener for you over your old white bearing! The Cirkus bearing was a superb upgrade over my old white bearing...and the new Karousel is even far superior to the Cirkus! If budget allows, run don't walk to this upgrade----
But which subchassis would I need? I know I would need Cirkus at a minimum. But wasn't there something which came between it and the keel which was supposed to be even better? Or could the keel subchassis be made to work with my ET2?
This thread is interesting but the options seem many and varied (of course!!). I’d like to hear opinions on best (or worst - to avoid) upgrade paths for an older LP12. My serial number is somewhere in the 25000 range from memory, which I think is late 70’s, and I got it in the mid 80’s. Tone arm is SME3.
