Brian started the band, alongside Ian Stewart They were the co-founders of the as yet untitled band which would come to be called “The Rollin’ Stones”, later The Rolling Stones But, Mick and Keith were already an established partnership in their own band While Brian did get them in his and Stu’s untitled band, it doesn’t become THE STONES until Mick and Keith joined Brian and Stu’s project As such all 6 of them were the Stones no part greater or lesser Without Mick and Keith’s songwriting, Keith’s guitar, Charlie’s drums, or the arrangements and texture Brian added to their songs on va to various instruments, they wouldn’t have conquered the world Each piece was equally important
The people Brian had in his orbit were hangers-on and clout chasers who only hung around him because he was famous His world became very insular after around 1967…not any real true friends…Mainly his girlfriends and family
Id argue that without any part of the initial 6 piece lineup (Inc Stu) they wouldn’t have gone anywhere. Each part was, for their respective periods, essential. Brian was essential for the core 60s era of 64-68 in terms of both his looks and the texture he provided with the additional instruments Taylor was essential for their arena rock era of 69-74 to compete with Zeppelin and such. He helped them be competitive with his lead guitar skill Ronnie proved essential in just helping hold it together since 75 and especially during the 80s etc. No lineup was more or less important
Was in the band from 62-69, 7 years. Taylor was in the band from 69-74, 5 years. If we’re going to measure the worth of a Stone by their longevity…..then Ron Wood’s importance dwarths both Brian, and Mick Taylor’s, by virtue of sheer longevity. The fact is that some of their best material was created with both Brian, and Mick Taylor. Certainly, the albums and songs after 1974 are very good; there are many songs post 1974 I enjoy very well. But I don’t think many would argue that pre 1974 Stones is (more often than not) better than post 1974 Stones. And Brian was an integral part of the band for the first 6 of those 12 years.
The truth is always in the middle. Brian was no angel, far from it in many many ways, but I do think ALO wanted him out from day one. I think his departure from the band started, at a slow pace, the day ALO entered the picture, and then picked up speed in 1968 because of his own severe mental illnesses, lack of interest in being there, and inability To control his vices. And I don’t think Mick and Keith were particularly fond of him, from day one, either. Keith moreso especially in that brief 1966-1967 where they were very close; but in general? Trurh is always in the middle. He was neither Devil nor angel, and Mick and Keith were not saints either.
Keith is a lot more tender than his image would suggest. You Got the Silver? Keith. Angie? 99% Keith in composition. Sleep Tonight? Keith. If you look at a lot of his “solo” songs within the Stones, most of his lyrics are about love, in one way or another. The image that Keith created for himself of this wild, dangerous, uncaring, bad boy was actually more Brian’s reality that he sort of adopted after he got involved with Anita. Keith was a shy and sensitive lad. If you watch or listen to pre 1968 interviews of Keith - before he adopted the KEEF persona - you can see it.
“When I first became associated with the Stones, I would say it was after the point in which Brian had started to leave, because his exit was a very slow one. It was a slow, lengthening and increasing difference in musical direction and various other problems. Even from Beggar’s Banquet on which Brian appears on some tracks in various forms playing flutes on one track, percussion on another, and sitar on another, but it did take place over a period of time, and near the last stages of [his departure] there was perhaps a disinterest in Brian’s part, out of frustration maybe, and so his appearances at the sessions were less and less frequent, and so it required a lot from Keith because Brian hadn’t left officially, so they couldn’t get someone else, and yet Brian couldn’t be counted on to be there.” - Jimmy Miller According to Brian himself, he had wanted to quit in 1967, but Mick had talked him out of it.
I don’t think the issue with Taylor is very murky. It seems that circa 1971-1972 as Keith himself could not be counted on fully, Mick Jagger began on to rely on Little Mick as a songwriting partner, increasingly. Out of this, you get songs like Moonlight Mile, Sway, Time Waits for No One, Winter, and so on. I think for a time Keith tolerated this, but eventually became threatened by it (having seen this icing out to Brian, having been a part of that himself) and so lashed out and resented Taylor. And Mick Jagger I think at the same time took Little Mick for granted, perhaps because he counted on him too much, or perhaps because his ego didn’t allow him to see Little Mick as anything more than a junior partner who was playing a role and didn’t value him as a partner. Add to this that Taylor had by the time of his departure a pretty severe coke and heroin addiction which he felt would imperil his life if he continued in the band, a sense of alienation from Keith, a feeling of being used and under appreciated. Also add in BOREDOM. The Stones’ music had become very formulaic by 1974, and as a young musician in his mid 20s, I think he wanted more than what the Stones offered. Add to this boredom musically, a boredom in the sense that Mick and Keith had decided no tour for 1974 which meant they’d be off the road for a year and a half. From the time Taylor joined the band in 1969, the band had toured every single year consecutively except 1974 - and lo and behold the one year they don’t tour is the year Mick quits. It was the perfect storm.
He wanted to leave in 1967. Mick talked him into staying. He also suggested he quit in May 1969 (per Bill’s autobiography) at a session.
I don’t think Brian knew what he wanted, either. He loved everything from Elizabethan and Richard Farina and folk music, to Bach, to being obsessed with CCR’s record in his final months. I don’t think he ever had a clear, crystallized idea for what he wanted to do musically, just that the Stones had by 1969 weren’t it. He spoke briefly of wanting to do electronic music in 1968.
Mick Jagger: “I’ll join the band as long as we only play Latino ballads and sing in Spanish” Brian Jones: “No way man. We play the Blues”
Well, there are a great deal of moving parts in your analysis which is one the reasons I described the situation as murky. Not to mention I have read many varied accounts from many sources (interviews, Keef's book, SHF, etc, etc). Still, your explanation makes sense and may well explain what was a murky situation. Murky does not mean there is no answer. On a side note, do you think Taylor has a legitimate gripe in not being given song writing credits?
For a few tracks yes, but not all. Sway for example he merely added beautiful lead guitar to what was a Mick Jagger song (Mick J is playing rhythm guitar). Moonlight Mile should’ve been a Jagger/Richards/Taylor credit as the song started off as a riff by Keith which both Micks then embellished on. Something like Time Waits For No One, and Winter were probably more easily Jagger/Taylor tracks. The songwriting aspect is more murky for me than the breakup. I think that if the Stones were honest businessmen, there would be quite a lot of people with co-writing credits on songs for example Taylor, Ry Cooder, and Jones just as the three who come to mind first, but also Nicky Hopkins
Regarding the Jagger/Richard songwriting, I always felt "other" contributions were mostly regarded as fleshing out ideas, not authorship. Corporate ownership
When you look at their most creative and adventurous period, he was all over it. Yes, the Stones have prevailed for an additional 50+ years in his absence... but IMO, they have spent almost that entire period rehashing the same old stuff.
The Stones were amazing juggernauts in two main areas: playing live and recording albums. Brian was there for the early days of both. But he slowly faded away from both. He was a major force in playing with different instruments and “colorations” as the Stones reacted to the sound of other great bands of the era. His decline was one lonnnnnng sad goodbye. By 1969 the Stones were a tired band that was fighting drug busts, Brian’s decline, little activity, etc. When MT joined they were an embarrassing sloppy mess. But they rehearsed big time, dropped all the “coloration” experimental sound and stripped it all down and became the steady giant rock blues band that ruled the world. All the rock critics that witnessed the 69 tour onwards were gobsmacked. They never really needed Brian by this point. I am not a Brian hater. He was a major talent in his day. But the fact is he became a sad drug casualty that needed to go. The super strange thing was that Keef was also a massive drug mess, but he became vital to the success and momentum of the band. So different to Brian. When Keith Richards says “you are doing too many drugs” you are doing way too many drugs. This statement was directed directly at Brian…
