there was nothing “lacking” in Brian Jones in his “musical contributions”…. And if you are referencing his guitar work, you need to listen to the early Rolling Stones records and appreciate how important his Rhythm Guitar work was in the the Stones Sound. (A fav. is his riff on Get Off My Cloud”
I Can’t Be Satisfied, Little Red Rooster, No Expectations, The Last Time are probably the best examples of his guitar playing, but he was essentially a slide guitarist, but a great harp player on those early records too.
Aah, BJ fanboys. The way they carry on, you'd think the band were sitting around him asking where they should go next. Mick and Keith wrote all the music, the band played it superbly (all of them) and Brian coloured it brilliantly. Any comparison with Syd Barrett (the songwriter, singer and guitarist of Pink Floyd) isn't even worth considering of trying to understand. I'm not a Barrett fanboy by the way, my avatars change each week.
Brian was the initial ambition behind the band and he was a talented arranger and colorist. If he had been able to step up as a songwriter, which was becoming a big source of money for bands, or more specifically their publishers and agents, in those days, he'd maybe still be in the band or at least the business. Probably he should have left the band earlier and established a career as producer or started another band, but everyone say he was terribly useless on drugs so he wasn't able to plan ahead or evaluate his situation soberly.
I’m not a Brian Jones fanboy either. I am a huge fan of Barrett and I’m telling you there’s people who write him off in the same exact way that this thread is writing off Jones, who despite not writing songs for the Stones had a similar role in the group at the outset.
Then they are idiots. "despite not writing songs" - you said it. Syd was the creative nucleus of Pink Floyd at the outset. He wrote practically all of the groups first album. I don't see any similarity between him and Jones at all (except that he was fired).
100% with you on Get off my Cloud. I still remember the first time I heard that song on the AM radio. I still remember hearing all those great singles on the AM dial when I was a kid and couldn't wait until the next play or ride my bike to Woolworths that had a record department in the basement to buy the 45.
Brian was his own worst enemy. In the early days he wanted that manager role and more money and better hotel rooms, etc, than the rest of the band. Once he realized he could not produce songs and that his bandmates could he sunk into a jealous funk and major drug abuse just eroded all he had. He was a bit of an a hole by most accounts. Fathered a bunch of children he cared little about. But for a time he was cool, articulate and intelligent sounding with the media, which was a big factor in getting the Stones a rolling. But live the “boogie” swing came from Charlie, Keef, Bill and the awesome sexy frontman they had with Mick.
Charlie was, by most accounts, an empathetic guy. He stated he felt very sorry for Brian. Such was the collapse in his skills, confidence and relationships. Just a sad figure. But when people think of Brian they see him from the early filmclips and all those 60s photos with him wearing cool trendy clothes. We never got to see an old Brian, a fat Brian or a bald Brian, etc. Sort of a James Dean effect that helps elevate that reputation and later status, due to that moment in the sun that was so tragically brief…
I think some of the "conflict" about both Brian and Syd is not a comparison really. Both bands' remaining members have expressed remorse about not being able to help more with which was obviously very self-destructive behaviour. I'm not that familiar with PF that much, but bands consisted of talented, ambitious Young men, not the greatest "intervenors" or mentors. Charlie said "We took away all he had" and "Brian loved drugs, but they weren't good for him". Mick said similar things, while still pointing out Brian had become very unreliable, and his continuous drug busts threatened their ability to tour the US. Keith, being somewhat drug-addled himself (or callous if you prefer) said something like "Everyone knows cats that you know just aren't going to make it". I've known a few myself, and they didn't. I was almost one of them on several occasions. Very sad in both cases, and worthy of discussing certainly, but the "camps" seem intractable, and hyperbole and personal attacks seem to be inevitable. A reflection of our times I guess?
+1 Even if as often stated he wasn't "a very nice guy" at times, had numerous faults, he shouldn't be vilified, or nominated to sainthood, just mourned as another gone too soon.
Important to note how quickly the Stones machine happened. They went from like six fans to hundreds of fans to massive global stardom in weeks! From obscurity to huge fame, money, pressure, obligations, media, sex, alcohol, drugs and the new thing that was rock music. It was a challenge to manage one’s own ride on this train let alone being the counselor support guy for all your bandmates. The guilt came later. Look at the Pink Floyd guys: they pretty much abandoned Syd but watching interview videos filmed decades later you can see the regret they all had…
Well yeah, both had personality and drug problems but as artists they eons apart. Syd was a revolutionary singer songwriter, Jones was a multi-instrumentalist (playing quite simplistic little melodies) for the band that he was in.
I agree Jim, and Syd just got dragged into this by your this week's avatar, Lol. Which I always enjoy seeing BTW.
Brian Jones biggest problem, besides being emotionally immature and having a weakness for drink and drugs, was that he could not write songs. The guy was super musically gifted, but could not compose suitable (non-blues based, pop,) music for the Stones, and crushed him when the Jagger/Richard "team" hit it big with the success of "Satisfaction". Jones was left in the dust, basically. It was never clear (from a public standpoint,) who was the "leader(s)" of the Stones, it kind of came together (with associations, and gigs).
You forgot to add the word “exquisite” before simplistic - as in : melodies that made those records the all-time classics they are. - examples I'm thinking of Ruby Tuesday, No Expectations, I Wanna be Your Man, I Can’t Be Satisfied, The Last Time, ...
Exquisite? They're OK but nothing exceptional. Great songs by the writers though and brilliantly sung!
I'd love to know... I love the band, but don't know much about who played what, or who wrote what. P.S. - I've enjoyed reading the thread, and hearing the different points of view.
Yes the writers - Jones having created what he played on those records I named. Jaggers voice was just okay, Phil May could've buried him onstage on those days! All friendly Stones-rivalry aside, I believe that although Brian possessed charisma and charm (or at least a convincing ability to turn on an appearance of those traits in front of an audience or camera) I don't think that he was altogether comfortable in leadership and his seeming lack of interest in writing and getting his own material published either within the Stones or outside the band as a writer/ recording artist in his own right (beyond his one forray into film music). He was certainly in a position to have been able to do that once the Stones hit big with “Satisfaction”, at the very least outside of the Stones on his own.
It's always contentious, to say the least, Lol. Some will declare Brian could pick up any instrument, and somehow magically "master" it in no time. Others say he was a tinkerer, "noodling" on many of them, because he was bored with guitar, and delegated to pure studio musician status, so tried to remain relevant with "colourations". His mellotron work is amazing for example, AFAIK a very difficult instrument (in its early forms) for even accomplished keyboard players to play. What's really amazing to me, for anyone who says "why are we even discussing this?" is that someone who died over 50 years ago can get SHF going with long, detailed, often fierce threads. They're often fun, informative (in some ways) but also can get personal, and sometimes (more often than not) even ugly.
