The Roon Dilemma

As I browse through these and other audio forums, I constantly run into people who are aghast at the price of Roon software and question the value of something with other "cheaper" alternatives. Some of these same users think nothing of laying out $2k for power cords or power conditioners, yet they feel $500 for a lifetime license of Roon is ridiculous. I used to run into this same mindset when I worked for a software company that made photography filters for Adobe Photoshop. People with $25k in camera and lighting equipment moaning about paying $200 for a software package. Is it a software versus hardware issue? I know we guys like to hold things in our hands and we appreciate the design element of audio products as well. If I can't feel it and look at it does that make it less valuable?

I now have my entire CD collection (2500+) ripped to an SSD via a Bluesound Vault 2i. I have a tiny Intel NUC running Roon Rock with everyone connected via STP ethernet. So, for an investment of a little over $2k I now have access to all of this music in CD native resolution--complete with album artwork and Allmusic reviews-- using a laptop or an iPhone. How does one put a price on that?

This post is in no way meant to start a fight; I am just interested in how others perceive the value--or lack of value--of having such a setup. Cheers!

 

I've been running free Logitech Media Server for as long as I've had my Squeezebox Touches, 2011 or so? I control them with iPeng, which was $9 I think. This gives me all the control I think (?) I need, integrating my FLAC rips/downloads/iTunes rips on my server and Tidal as well.

I'm intrigued by Roon, but not sure what it would do for me.

 

Don't spend your $$ on bling. Spend it on something that will make it go faster. Just an analogy. That one pertains to something with wheels. Same goes for anything.

 

I have not bought a lifetime, but should have as I've been annual for about three years or so. I think that most folks that don't see the value come is several camps: 1. those that just will not accept that streaming can be of equal quality to media. 2. Those that don't see any value in a service that just serves the same music that they get from River, iTunes or other front ends. 3. Those that haven't really tried it and used the features that it offers. Of course nothing wrong with any of thousand if it doesn't fit their listening model, then good for them, save the money.

I think most of those folks just look at it as a player, but it is so much more. It is a fully developed database that serves up your stuff rich along with your choices from Tidal and Qobuz.

For me, it has changed my listening more than any other expense in the hobby. I run it on a QNAP NAS and love how it does all the heavy lifting and translates any source to fit anything I send it to. Want to send your new DSD purchase to your AppleTV, no problem! Roon translates it. Hi Res to your Sonos, no problem! You miss having your gatefold LP with all it's info, no problem, the Roon Core has already gone out and gotten every detail about everything in your library, lyrics, credits, reviews, etc.

I love it!

 

I don't use Roon, but I don't think it's overpriced, not at all. What is overpriced are some of those cables you mentioned.

Those on the fence might want to try it for a while to see.

I use JRiver instead -- been using it a long time before Roon came on the scene. I tried Roon for a year, but as I have got my files very well tagged, Roon didn't offer enough to tempt me, especially since my NAS will run a DLNA server easily but not Roon core.

 

Jriver surely offers a lot of function for the cost, I've had it on my Mac for ages, but I have always found the UI to be really bad. Of course you can get used to about anything over the years.

 

I have Roon with a lifetime license, and I think it is a great value. That being said, unlike a piece of hardware, you can’t sell it. It’s a non-transferable license. If they go out of business, or have their IP purchased, will it work at all?

Sometimes I wonder “Whose lifetime? Mine, or Roon Inc?”

But it has changed the way I listen to music, and I’m glad I bought the license a few years back...

 

Yep, that's what has kept me annual.

 

Well, at the age of 68, I was betting I would be the winner. LOL!

 

I bought the lifetime and I have been using JRiver. I still use JRiver (mostly for tagging)

I thought it was worth the price because I value the way it manages my music more than Other players, way it allows playback around the house and integration with streamers. I like the new radio feature as well

I chose lifetime because I wanted to pay and forget. I thought I would use it for 5 years +

I spend a lot of time using it so I am
Getting value.

 

Pretty easily, just over $2k

 

Haha! Maybe I should have said "value."

 

Almost all of my listening on my serious system was vinyl. This year I tried Roon and Qobuz, and that has been such a game changer for me with discovering new stuff to listen to that I ended up upgrading my digital front end to a Naim NDX2, which is also a native Roon endpoint. I still don't get the SQ I get with vinyl, but it's close enough to enjoy for serious listening, and I'm discovering a lot of new stuff. Some I am buying on vinyl, some I just add to my library from Qobuz.

Until recently I was running Roon Core on an 2012 Mac Mini Core i7, but earlier this week I bought a NUC (NUC8i7) and am now running ROCK on it. Assuming I still use Roon in a year I'll probably get the lifetime license at that point.

 

How is roon any better than a DLNA server?
Been using asset upnp for a DLNA server for a decade and serve my lossless and high res audio to any device on my network.

I can live transcode to wav so literally any device can play it.

I currently use a cambridge 851n to play on my main system

The software is like $20

 

Ditto this, except I've been a user since the original SLIMP3 (2001), and I'm not that terribly interested in Roon.

My player is a Raspberry Pi with HiFiBerry Pro DAC.

Outstanding.

 

I'd say the value in Roon is a personal thing.

To people who use a number of its features it's priceless, but to those who just want basic software for playing their music files it's very expensive.

I started out as the latter, but pretty quickly found I became one of the former.

 

One of the things I am seeing here are two camps: there are those who have the knowledge, technical savvy, and a willingness to invest the time to find their own way to do what Roon does, and then there are those of us who have limited technical expertise and/or time to invest and consider the Roon investment a good value. We just buy (or rent) the software, and invest in some very basic equipment and follow their online instructions and we are there. Certainly, neither side is wrong. We are all just finding what for us is the easiest and least painful way (cost-effective) to arrive at the same place: listening to and enjoying our music.

Let me add that when I say minimal investment I am basing that on what many audiophiles are willing to pay for even minor tweaks to their system.

 

I don't think that's the case, the ones that are doing other things may not care about the extra features, but believe me they are not getting the extra stuff that the database does with the other solutions, they are just getting library management and the ability to play their files, and that's all they want, so why spend extra. I don't think it's a matter of being any more tech savvy, one has little to do with the other. I can say that I am far more tech savvy than most, but I still love the Roon interface and feature set.

It's not different that any other area where there are lots of options at every price point. The value proposition is different for everyone for any purchase. I have gear that costs thousands of dollars yet not one aftermarket power cord. I bought one set of crazy (to me) speaker wires only because the dealer let me take them home to try and after a few days I told him I would keep them but didn't really get into the cost since I had a large credit at the store and found out later that they were well over a grand. He never figured I would bat an eye at the cost since they were connecting to $20K in amps I had just purchased from him.

 

One thing that could get added to the discussion is that I see now that Plex had added Tidal Integration to their server and The subscription is the same cost as a standalone Tidal sub. This gives some of the functionality of Roon and the ability to stream your stuff anywhere you are - a feature that Roon has not added, but has been desired from the beginning. What I don't know is if the Plex/Tidal sub still allows Tidal to be accessed from other competing services like Roon, Sonos, Bluesound, or even devices like Tv's and Streamers.

 

I have no issue with the price, I like the old school model of just pay for it once instead of these subscription models that Adobe and Microsoft use, which is great if you're a shareholder, not so great as a consumer. I imagine if they did subscription only they'd make more money.

I have been meaning to give Roon another try now that people are saying it handles classical better. I only use free streaming to sample music, not for serious listening (the Universal watermark is too obvious to my ears) so a lot of the value of Roon is lost on me.

 

I have a lifetime lifetime license for Roon but my main platform is still JRiver. I like what Roon did but JRiver is still better for my purposes. I don't have a problem paying for software and I don't think it should be free.

 

Actually, the subscription model works better than many will admit. I have several apps that I have to keep up to date as I have clients that update and I have to maintain compatibility. The subs are generally the same cost (or even a bit less) than the previous cost IF you stayed up to date. Unfortunately, some software pariahs (Autodesk is the worst culprit) add very little useful features in their updates and periodically break the file compatibility and force you to update,

What is good is that I can jump in and out of some of the subs to get a project done without doing the annual. I actually think that Microsoft got it right as the monthly cost for Office365 is quite a bargain for what it provides. My company moved everything to the Office365Enterprise solution and it has simplified things and saved us thousands on the server side.

 

Having used other players like PureMusic and Amarra, I've seen how the buy-it-once model in this space seems to result in a somewhat substandard level of engineering - amateur UX, bugs, limited features. Roon's SAS model allows them to afford better engineering resources, but I see another problem looming - the curse of iteration. They seem to feel a need for constant churn to let customers know they're not standing still. Little things, like where clicking on the currently playing song now takes you to a sheet of lyrics vs. the album just annoy me. Nothing major, but I'm worried this could cause things to get silly in the near future.

 

I'm an early lifetime subscriber, and am quite happy with it.

But I am technically-savvy. I just use those skills elsewhere in the system (for example, an RPI roon endpoint). When I want to listen to music, I want as elegant user experience as possible, and Roon provides that.

I don't exploit the multi-room aspects as much as one could, but that would just be gravy.

 

Good information, thanks. I don't use any of them, just mostly see people discussing them on /r/investing (I have been long term with mfst) and then noticed Adobe revenue and stock soared after they switched to a subscription model. I have read that Office 365 is really good. For work I have to do everything within the EMR software and Libre works fine for opening the occasional non-work related PowerPoint or word doc.