The Rush cd mastering thread (part 2)

Grace Under Pressure, this one or Signals is my favorite album by them at any given time. Fave CD is still the Canadian Anthem, although the 25-8P and AMCY have the same mastering (but level shifted). Sector 3, WG Atomic, and HDTracks are all smiley faced faced vs the Anthem and Jpn discs.

 

Interesting. Perhaps the Anthem (and by extension, the Japanese CDs) was a flat transfer and every other version had to use tapes that were EQ'd for vinyl? This seems to be the case with the Sector and possibly HDTracks masterings, but I wonder if it applies to the Atomic and '97 remaster as well.

 

I used to hazard guesses as to what CDs were closer to the masters, or were flat(ter) transfers, but a dude who knows more than I do said that all transfers are EQ'ed to some extent. So then I just try to figure out which ones are least messed with, or my favorite term, least futzed with.

This is a touchy feeling thing but in general though, if I have two different CDs/masterings, and if one is smiley faced vs the other, then I do presume that the smiley faced one is more futzed with. However, you have to listen. I have heard a handful of cases over the years where there wasn't enough low end, or the highs were too rolled off. So in that case, I'd prefer what I'd normally refer to as the more futzed with CD/mastering.

Actually, it was you, Diablo Griffin, who spotted 1st I think that the Anthem, AMCY, and 25-8P (and 35.8P) were all the same for GUP. I have that cut and pasted into my notes.

Still comes down to personal preference too. One nice thing about this album, and really, Rush in general, is that there are different flavors of good sounding masters to choose from for each album. I liked and still like the Atomic 03 for Moving Pictures, for example, but then I began to like the MFSL a little more, and I might be liking the AMCY the best now (still need to do a little more listening for that one), but hey, it's nice to have those 3 choices, plus a few others to choose from!

Another quick Moving Pictures question too. I have a tendency of ignoring CD masterings I can't easily get myself. The green arrow for MP though, is that the same as any other mastering? I couldn't remember. Dave has me thinking about that one now!

 

I didn't know the AMCY-289 MP was a unique mastering.

 

Just for Signals and Moving Pictures, I'm pretty sure.

 

Really. Some earlier posts claimed the AMCY is the same as the 01 and 02 atomic with the intro cut off, so that's why I never considered it.

 

The beg is there for the AMCY. In fact, it might have the longest delay there (which still isn't much), before that 1st note of Tom Sawyer.

Maybe they were basing that on EAC numbers, and not actually listening to it?

WG Mercury 800 048-2
(Green Arrow) 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0%

WG Mercury 800 048-2
(Atomic 02 Matrix) 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0% 100.0%

JP Atlantic AMCY-289
99.0% 99.0% 99.0% 99.0% 99.0% 99.0% 99.0%

 

Interesting. What is it you like about the AMCY? Do you think it's an upgrade over the MFSL?

 

If I compare the Atomic 03 or the MFSL to the AMCY, the Atomic and MFSL are slightly smiley faced EQ'ed vs the AMCY. But knowing that's the case, when I listen, I can hear that the lows are a little stronger for the Atomic and MFSL vs the AMCY. Does that make the AMCY "better"? I don't know. Sort of why I asked above if anyone else had given much consideration to that one being the best one. I did some more listening last night, and all 3 are good sounding discs. But I did come to one conclusion:

I have mentioned before, that I have a 2 pronged approach to comparing discs. a) Quick A/B back and forth. Which one sounds better? Does anything stick out? Does anything seem missing? b) Listening to each disc casually. Similarly: which one is more crankible? Does any one "irritate" me more? I realized then that I do have a 3rd way that I've never actively thought about before. c) Switch my preference. Does it hold over time? Do I miss the old favorite disc? This process can take years. So for example, I liked the Atomic 03 for years. Then I switched to the MFSL, now I'll probably switch to the AMCY. But then a few years down the line, does the AMCY still "win"? Or do I miss anything about the Atomic or MFSL? Kind of neat when you think about it that way. Your favorite disc doesn't have to be static. It can change over time.

 

I really need to compare all of these MP CDs again. Some recent casual listens of the Atomic (both 02 and 03) had me thinking it was bit sterile, whereas I didn't have that feeling with the silverface, record club VANK, or MFSL. I know there are tons of different masterings for this album, but I still want to start a blind listening poll for it.

 

If the AMCY has a more balanced EQ than the others then I will probably like it.

 

It fares decently against the others IMO. Just perhaps a tad less bass than the other pre-1997 masterings, but other than that, it's solid.

 

Are the others boosted in comparison?

 

I want to listen to all of my MP CDs before making any sort of conclusion, but here's what I've found when I through them in Google spreadsheets:



The US silver-face, MFSL, and ANC-1-1030 all have the same general EQ. The 1997 and Sector remasters have that same EQ as well, but I didn't put them on the graph since it didn't look neat enough. The AMCY's midrange is similar to the rest of the CDs, but it has a slight treble roll-off and a bigger bass roll-off. Not sure why this happened, but perhaps boomy speakers were used when it was mastered? This means that the Atomic is basically the odd man out here. Now I really want to listen to these CDs.

 

Maybe the Japanese felt the AMCY needed those roll-offs.

Did I read correctly that the 25・8P-5076 is not the same as the AMCY?

 

Yes, the AMCY is not the same as the 25-8P for Moving Pictures, 0r for Signals.

Ultimately, we can't know if the bass has been rolled off for the AMCY, or if all the others had it boosted to different degrees. We can only listen to each, and then compare and decide what our each preference is.

 

More on Moving Pictures:
Unless noted otherwise, the fade-in for Red Barchetta starts just a tiny bit later than the vinyl releases that I own (Canadian RL and US CRC).
Also unless noted otherwise, all CDs have the same phase.

Green Arrow(?)/02 Atomic
Unique. First CD mastering. Late fade-ins for Red Barchetta (begins a bit later than the non-Atomic masterings), The Camera Eye (starts halfway thru the first car honk), and Vital Signs. First drum hit of Tom Sawyer is cut-off. Volume is about 2 or 3dB louder than the subsequent Atomics, and due to that, there's quite a bit of clipping. @S. P. Honeybunch has speculated that the late fade-ins are a sign that an LP production tape was used for mastering (this applies to the 03 Atomic as well). Inverted phase.

03+ and US Atomic
Level-shift of Green Arrow/02 Atomic. EQ is exactly the same between the 2 masterings. The clipped peaks have been restored, which results in better dynamics. Tom Sawyer's opening drum hit has been added back. The other songs still have the same late fade-ins though. Forum-preferred CD release.

ANC-1-1030/VANK-1030 (BMG edition)
Unique. The Camera Eye has a glitch at 2:54 that doesn't exist on any other version.

Standard VANK-1030/US silver-face
Level-shifted version of ANC-1-1030; they stay in perfect sync. Identical or at least very similar EQ. Volume is boosted to the point of introducing clipped peaks, though not to the same extent as the 02 Atomic. The glitch in The Camera Eye has been fixed.

25.8P
Unique? Never had this one, so I can't confirm. However, I did get to hear some samples a while ago. Unlike most of the other masterings, Red Barchetta's fade-in is completely intact.

AMCY
Red Barchetta has the full fade-in here too, just like on the 25.8P. Because of this, my money's on the AMCY using the same tape (possibly even the same digital source) as the 25.8P, but it could be unique.

Brazilian Mercury
I think @Ambassador stated that this was a unique mastering.

MFSL
Unique. While the EQ is mostly similar to the ANC and US silver-face, there's a treble roll-off starting at 5kHz. If you think the MFSL sounds smoother than the other CDs, this is probably the reason for it.

1997 Remaster
Unless you're a hardcore Rush collector, please avoid this one. Why's that, you ask? Because, get this, it's a re-EQ'd and compressed version of ANC-1-1030! It perfectly syncs with both that one and the US silver-face! Now in all fairness, maybe the original digital master was used for this one. However, since the '97 remasters of Hemispheres, Hold Your Fire, and A Show of Hands also used the same digital source as the old CDs, I'm not buying that theory. A decent amount of hard limiting has been added, and depending on the track, it can be anywhere from 2 to 5dB louder than the ANC. EQ is a little smiley-faced compared to the ANC and US CDs. The Camera Eye's glitch was fixed here as well. Not a fan of the sound quality here, even via casual listening. Any other version is a better option.

Sector 2/2011 Deluxe Edition
Unique. Andy VanDette says that he was initially given the same digital tape that was used for the 02 Atomic, but I guess he eventually received a better one since Tom Sawyer's first drum hit is intact on this CD. Speed is slightly faster than the previous editions, though the pitch is the same. There's no silence at the beginning of each track; they all start immediately. It's not an issue if you're listening to the disc all the way through, but it may be off-putting to those of you who tend to skip to individual tracks. This also applies to the rest of the Sector remasters. Inverted phase. It's a little more compressed than the '97 remaster, though it doesn't sound as harsh to me because it has a warmer tonality.

 

25-8P and AMCY are different for Moving Pictures. 25-8P is smiley faced vs the AMCY. I'll try and post the EQ differences in the next few days.

 

I got motivated. Moving Pictures comparison. The AMCY is my new current favorite. Had it for a while now, but hadn't really sat down and compared before.

 

Alright, I've found the 25.8P MP samples that were posted earlier in the thread. I completely forgot about that! Anyway, the 25.8P doesn't stay in sync with the AMCY, or any other version for that matter. Since Red Barchetta has the complete fade-in on both CDs, I guess each disc used different transfers of the same tape. The 25.8P also has inverted phase. I should mention that both of these masterings are a bit louder than the other early versions (25.8P has some clipping, AMCY has hard limiting). I'm not decided on whether the AMCY's EQ is a better or worse fit for this album yet, but it's certainly very different from the rest of the CDs in that regard! Now if only I could hear the Brazilian CD at some point!

 

Don't tempt me.

 

I felt nearly the same way about those mostly hi-res downloads, except for Perm Waves, until I started to hear audible watermarking, on most of the Mercury era albums, courtesy of the nimrod hacks at UMG.

Once you hear it you cant go back. Ofttimes ignorance is bliss...if you want to remain in that happier state do not research any deeper into the matter and avoid this; Audio Watermark Listening Test

 

Dynamics look fine for the MP AMCY:

DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR14 -0.08 dB -15.17 dB 01 Tom Sawyer.wav
DR14 -0.08 dB -15.90 dB 02 Red Barchetta.wav
DR14 -0.08 dB -16.19 dB 03 Yyz.wav
DR14 -0.08 dB -15.47 dB 04 Limelight.wav
DR14 -0.08 dB -16.26 dB 05 The Camera Eye.wav
DR13 -0.08 dB -16.31 dB 06 Witch Hunt.wav
DR14 -0.08 dB -16.07 dB 07 Vital Signs.wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 7
Official DR value: DR14

 

I have looked at that site before. I can hear it in the exaggerated sound clip, but I can't hear it in any of the Rush downloads.

Is the watermark in all of the downloads? Or just certain vendors (HD Tracks)?

 

I was chattin' with Holy Diver offline, and we collectively thought that Hemispheres, Signals, and Moving Pictures were the best "sounding" (recorded) albums.

??

What's a little bit funny to me, is that I'm not a big fan of Hemispheres or Moving Pictures.