The SugarCube Is Here At Last...Clicks & Pops R.I.P.

Yeah, it isn't a worry. Just something I noticed. The bongos aren't removed and I didn't notice any significant alteration in the sound flipping between bypass and remove.

 

I've done the same thing. Inevitably there is a loss of resolution with these false positives but most of the time it's imperceptible. I've heard it can be a much bigger problem with electronic music.

 

That is interesting to me. I have been told by several people at my audio dealer's shop I have very discerning hearing. I don't always know the proper term for the affect I am hearing, but the effect I describe is quite accurate. The reason for this preamble was to show I am not a tone deaf listener. I find it interesting that I don't hear the SC altering the music at levels of 5 or below. Not even with my latest system which was the result of some serious upgrade. I think much of it is due to the type of music I listen to. A lot of the types of music that causes the most problems for people I simply don't listen to. Just lucky I guess.

 

I'm talking specifically about when the unit is being overzealous. Sometimes very short drum hits or spanky guitars can be detected as a click.

In normal operation I almost certainly can't tell it's doing anything.

 

I did hear the SC 1 Mini in action yesterday. It definitely did what it advertises and I couldn't detect any significant difference in SQ at 3-5 settings. One record required more and at the upper end of the settings I did notice it. I felt the benefits override any slight reduction in SQ. Interestingly, the records I brought that sounded noisy on my setup were much better on the dealers set up. I think my cartridge needs more adjustment to optimize it before considering the Sugar Cube. I'm going to get to try another cartridge as well this week. I'm also auditioning an all tube integrated this week so lots to think about.

 

That's the experience I want with my classical records. I built a great collection and most of it I got used for peanuts. Very good to excellent condition, but it doesn't matter - the occasional pops and such are there. I'll be following this thread until invite the bullet and get one.

 

My understanding it that the monitor also includes a little bit of music for context - it's not simply a stream of all that is being removed.

 

Interesting. What was the dealer's cartridge? Stylus geometry plays a huge role in how deep the diamond reaches into the groove and how well it contacts the walls, making more detail come with more susceptibility to noise.

 

I'm sorry to be dense. But are you talking about the random clicking problem in the left channel that many of us have had starting in the early days back in 2020? They have eventually tamed to a large degree on most people's systems. The reason I ask is my when I got these left channel clicks they were totally random. Once they started the occurred in between tracks or when I wasn't even playing a record. Also, they weren't present if I was recording that session with the SC-2 Mini. I also noticed when I did get this clicking it seemed to occurred after playing a record the was very complex and had a very dense compressed mix. Fortunately by the start of 2021 these problems were pretty much gone.

Was this what you had happen, just with some of the clicks being related to the music too? Or did you have yet another manifestation of this problem?

 

I can attest to that. When I returned to playing records in 2018 after a 30 year hiatus, I bought an EAT C-Sharp. It came with the then brand new EAT Jo No. 5 MC cartridge. I was initially disappointed because I had hoped for the Ortofon MC cart that I thought it would come with. I was quickly delighted and amazed at the high quality sound I heard and the amazing quietness of the cartridge. Records I owned from 30 years ago that had bad noisy surfaces and many clicks and pops were much quieter and the level of clicks and pops were reduced. I used to use a Thorens TD-160 with either a Stanton 681EEE, Shure V-15 Type II & III, or a Micro Acoustics 3002. I used to go through cartridges about once every 9 month to a year back then. It seemed like the new cartridge with its nude fine line stylus was riding in a different portion of the groove. A portion which was previously untouched by my old cartridges. I was the first person my dealer had sold that EAT Jo No.5 cartridge too. I called him after a month to see if this was my imagination or not. He said several other users were reporting the same thing. It was a very quiet cartridge. When I had to replace the stylus I actually upgraded to the newer EAT Jo No. 8 MC cartridge with a nude shibata stylus. It was even a little bit quieter. Not to the degree the Jo No. 5 had improved the noise, but still noticeable. So the cartridge and stylus can definitely improve the sound in terms of record noise. Also tracking and sound quality.

Now I don't know how much of this is also due to synergy with my turntable. I am sure EAT fine tuned the cartridge to sound great with their own turntables. Also my dealer set the cartridge up for me and he was very careful to get the alignment just right. That too may have something to do with the great sound. I was amazed how much the cartridge / stylus made such a difference in the record noise. Those 4 cartridges I used were highly regarded back in the day, but there is simply no comparison.

 

Nothing to do with the left channel clicking. Some music has noises that resemble clicks and pops, usually in the percussion. The SugarCube detects these noises and (as hobbes4444 noticed) performs unnecessarily click reduction on them. In most cases the reduction in fidelity isn't noticeable but in severe cases you have missing drum hits.

I only have a few records that cause the SugarCube to detect false positives. I don't consider it a big problem. Electronic music is far more susceptible to the issue.

 

Ok I get it thanks. The music I play has only triggered the random clicking, never false positives. Then again I don't usually play that type of music.

 

Funny you should mention that. I recently bought a modern pressing of the Foo Fighters second album. It's the most dense and compressed record I've heard. It's insane, and yet it sounds far better than the original CD. Anyway, I did hear the left channel clicks again. My previous unit was plagued with the issue and pressing bypass wouldn't help. Thankfully this one stopped clicking immediately after I cycled bypass.

Has anyone else noticed dense albums (for example - highly compressed modern rock) triggering the left channel click issue?

I am curious whether gain settings affect this. I like my vinyl preamp output high so that I'm not tweaking the volume on my amp between inputs. The SugarCube doesn't complain of any clipping on the -6db setting.

I've got my doubts that loudness is the real issue, more likely it's the sheer amount of broadband transient spikes in crazy recordings.

 

Have you tried lowering the input level to an arbitrarily low level just for troubleshooting purposes?

 

Currently doing that now. I extensively tested with my previous unit but that had a serious hardware fault.

 

After “dense modern recordings” clicking starts to happen in my head, even without SugarCube.

 

C'mon. The Color and the Shape is worth your ears ringing. This album put a full stop on my ability to hear above 15k.

 

Question—are the Mini versions of the SC-1 and SC-2 based on a Raspberry Pi platform? If you look at the rear of the Mini units, the location of the four USB ports and the Ethernet port look similar to a Raspberry Pi 3.

 

Not necessarily. The SC uses an Android based OS to do its magic. In fact they blame the left channel clicking on an undocumented feature, aka bug, in the underlying Android OS. Back on topic: I questioned all of the USB ports on the back and what they did. I was told that they used a stock part for SC-2 Mini for cost saving purposes. This stock piece had 4 USB ports which were not really needed for the SC-2. It is possible you are right, but it could be they used a part which was also used in a Raspberry PI. The may not have used the underlying OS.

 

@WDeranged : It is not necessarily modern dense and compressed records only. I also noticed it on some late '50's early '60's mono rock compilation LPs that were on budget labels reissue labels like K-TEL. They often had 10 tracks per side and 30 minute side lengths. Before people judge me too harshly, I often bought these LPs because they had 1 or 2 songs I liked, but didn't have the 45RPM single version and I certainly didn't want the whole LP by that artist. These comps were often cheaper @$1.99 that the cost of picking up the individual singles. Plus there were often other songs I didn't have better versions of.

But I digress. The music on these compilations was severely compressed and dense sounding as a result of squeezing this much music on a single side. These old LPs triggered the clicks, but back in the day I simply turned he SC off for 3 seconds and restarted and the clicks were gone. Now with newer firmware it is easier to deal with the clicks. I have a hunch that this much density makes it very hard for the ADC and the SC software to decode this into something that is easy to work with.

 

I have not used my SC1-mini in a while so decided to turn it on today, in case there are updates. I dropped the needle on my noisy copy of Great Harvest (Makoto Terashita) and, for a few seconds, I thought something was wrong with my system as there was no sound coming out of the speakers. The record was completely quiet even on the lead-in groove on level 3!

 

I powered up my amp today and heard the SugarCube clicking. I'd been checking throughout the week and it was silent. I've not played any records so it seems preamp gain might not be a factor. Thankfully, pressing bypass stopped it, as it should.

 

What headroom level do you select on the SC1? I currently have mine on 0db with the JC3 jr, but had to lower it two levels (-6dB ?) when I was auditioning a VTL pre-amp.

 

I've got it on +0db with my preamp on it's lowest output. I'd have to drop down a level (-6db) with my preferred preamp gain or else I got clip warnings from the SugarCube. It's strange that the unit has been happily listening to silence all week and now suddenly decides to get clicky. My previous faulty unit did this too, but pressing bypass did nothing to help it.

 

It is strange that it would be clicking when you are not playing a record. By the way, I always turn mine OFF after a listening session. I am wondering if I am masking the problem by having the unit reboot each time.