The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

I should frequent lenco-heaven a bit more I think!

Interestingly I think the drive/momentem/rhythm/timing on the lenco and the gr are pretty much equal, which says a lot about the gr as I never thought I'd say that about any turntable.

 

I use a $850 cart and a $3K phono stage with my GR and have nothing to complain about it. @avanti1960 used the GR with the same ART9 to great results.

 

Even an old 1200 can handle quite expensive cartridges with proper setup and a few mods. I know a guy that used a $10K cartridge on his KAB modded 1200. The idea that all components have to be equal in MSRP is outdated hi-fi salesman talk, with no basis in fact.

 

It's the garbage in garbage out basis. Start with the recording (in practical terms sound and pressing quality of the record) then turntable then arm then cartridge. Probably can get away with an expensive cartridge on a much cheaper arm. It's not that it will work but what works best. Cheaper cartridge on expensive TT is most likely to give better results than an expensive cartridge on cheap TT. GR is probably in the more than good enough middle ground but with other expensive components expect better fidelity with a better TT. People kidding themselves the GR is as good as G for instance. I'm not talking all components being equal cost in any way. Why save £1500 on TT and throw several £000's more at cartridges and phono amp. Maybe a slightly more equitable expenditure is more rewarding?

 

Thanks! How about the mains cable? I’ve had good experience with switching these on my amp, but don’t know if it would be similar on a TT? Anyone? Cheers

 

Go do (or find) some credible measurements and get back to me with facts to back up any specific claim you are making.

We all know the G is the best built of the bunch (well, before you get to the even higher reference models like the SP or whatever) but in terms of what is measurable and what is audible to human ears (often aging ears), that is another story.

People can spend what they like on each component and whatever makes them happy or they deem appropriate.

This is no knock on the G at all by the way - I see that deck as a no compromise work of engineering art for those that want the best of what a 1200 could be.

 

The G def has better dampening, perhaps not measurable, but should be detectable depending on ones situation.
The upgraded motor on the G - well not sure if that can be heard over the GR.
Biggest deal in the GR vs G, IMO, is the G's arm.

 

I have not tried to replace.
Although I do have a Venom 3 that I am thinking of switching out....just to see what I can see.

 

"People kidding themselves the GR is as good as G" are people like me/us on this forum who have never heard any comparisons between the two decks, not even people's opinions on the sound of the two decks,
the G has a heavier platter which could well make a difference but does it make an audible difference with that level of good motor engineering?
better tonearm on the g, how is it better?
I got the gr because I wanted the least possible wow and flutter. I believe the G has the same specs and it sounds good. Where is the line with things like amps/speakers that one would hear both decks and jump up saying wow! that's different, or even hear differences over time, do we have to get into real money territory before that point is reached? I have studio moniters and a mixing unit which is being at some point replaced by one an engineer friend is making for me for cost of the components. If I bought a GR I don't expect to hear a massive difference but if I had a £5000 amp or something silly would I be majorly impressed?
and then we get on to the records themselves, my collection of mostly oldish (pre mid 80s) classical lps needs low wf and stable speed. Would someone who owned all new 180gram so called audiophile issues see much more from their upgrade than someone with a collection of second hand discs?
Genuine questions I'm not trying to ster!

 

All this talk reminds me of the 1200G vs. Continuum debacle from a few years back courtesy of Dirty 'Ol Uncle Mike. In theory, the difference between a $4K deck and a $100K deck should've been clearly audible to many yet they weren't and many people got it wrong. IIRC the results weren't much better than random guessing. And even a guy with an engineering background that attempted to analyze the files with software also got it wrong, because he based his analysis on faulty assumptions.

 

Unless you were in the room with Mike, well, all else means nothing.
Analog vs digital you tube download....Ha!

 

I believe he had the files uploaded as well at one point. It's also worth noting the ENOB of vinyl is 12-13 bits.

 

He did give 24 bit flac files though rite?

Surely if you have a good digital system and a 24bit file to go at one should be able to hear differences. People who got it wrong didn't say they couldn't hear differences, they heard them and got it wrong,
ps I never did know which file was which, how did you find out?

 

Yes, but still conversion is involved.
Surely all here know it's not the same as 'live'.
So why question?

 

You are just going on measurements which is not the whole story where hi-fi components are concerned. I heard a GR demo by Technics and it didn't overly impress, myself putting it close to the PLX 1000 soundwise in that system without the benefit of direct comparison being possible. The G I know is way better than the PLX 1000. It should be for the price difference and it should be over the GR as there are many major and minor differences in components and construction. Your thoughts on new audiophile recordings benefiting more than old classical discs is pretty of kilter. I would expect any well recorded disc to benefit from a better TT. Badly recorded or cut examples not so much but most discs should be audibly better to some degree. I have never bought a more expensive TT that didn't sound better than a cheaper model. I don't think that is a given with other components.

 

that's interesting and is the first I've heard from anyone who has heard both decks.
would you rate the gr as very good and the g as excellent, or are they just very different? I'm curious to get a feel for where the gr is in terms of what's being manufactured today if that makes sense. Sounds good to me but I have no comparison points other than an old lenco!

 

Problem is my experience of the GR is very limited and I own the G. If it is close to the Pioneer (if a bit better) as I perceived and others on this forum have posted then the G is substantially better. Maybe the GR is between Planar 3 and 6 depending on taste at a guess not having heard them side by side. The G is certainly up with decks in £4K to £5K bracket.

 

So if we take out wow and flutter which I think are the same for g and gr, what might the audible differences be, more separation/more open sound on the G vs the gr?
People talk about the gr sounding like a cd. That just says to me it's presise sounding which I can't imagine as being bad.
Only gripe with my gr really is that hiss which most people say isn't going to be made significantly better. I guess I'm asking what I'm missing, not sure why as I'm broke

 

Not sure if this helps, but I'm running a 2M black.
I did not get the G for where I am (as the GR could easily handle it I'm sure), but to cover wherever I may go in the future.
As I understand it the G is closer to the SP's than the GR in tech/design.

 

I suppose what I'm saying is that if it isn't fair to compare two digital transfers with exactly the same other equipment then why would he have made them?

 

Gets us talking, hopefully we spend money

 

After following your posts, my vote is to stick with the GR, relax and enjoy it!

 

Well that's definitely what's on the table for the next few years, the only possible upgrade I think I could/would ever make is the G. I need the 78rpm and speed change functions as most folks know 78 is a bit of a joke I have records that play from 66 through to 90rpm... so my future upgrades will be carts and digital stuff,
all the same, I'm morbidly curious to know what the GR makes me miss out on in comparison to the G

 

With your goals, I don't think the G offers you anything that the GR doesn't already deliver.
I think you'll just end up a few dollars poorer with the G.

 

You've just made my wife very happy for sure!