The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Halloween_Jack, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
  2. riverrat

    riverrat Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    This thread is entitled The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread.

    I posed a short set of "general questions" Is the 1500C just a 1200GR without the pitch control? Or are there other differences? Is the tonearm the same on these two models?

    I'm not being lazy; in addition to skimming this thread, I also looked at the website before asking.


    Despite being flashy-looking, with nice pictures, the website is anything but clear. It is poorly organized IMO. It shows features of each model separately, with a lot of technical jargon. You can compare models, e.g. within "Grand Class" but not across different "classes". The comparison tool is lame, e.g. the only difference it shows between the G and GR is that the G has a different platter, weighs more, and has higher "starting torque" and "audio output". There isn't any comparison tool for the "Premium" class.

    I'm guessing some contributors to this 300+ page thread have been following it for months. So it doesn't seem inappropriate or lazy to ask a question here. Sure, with some time and web research I could probably learn more than when I posed it. But why not just ask people who've been discussing this stuff for months, here on the forum? That's what this thread is for.

    THIS is helpful, thank you very much.

    ___________________________
    Here's what I think I know:
    The tonearm appears to be the same.
    The 1500C includes a built-in phono pre-amp, which I don't need.
    The 1500C includes an auto-tonearm lift at the end of playback, which could be handy but not really necessary
    The 1500C does not include the pitch control and associated strobe.
    The 1500C has differences in mount/armboard which could be an issue with any tonearm upgrade (thank you KeithL)
    ___________________________
    Here's what I'd like to know more about:
    Differences in the motor; more importantly, how much any such differences affect performance and playback specs
    Other differences in construction that might affect performance/playback quality
    In short, other than aforementioned tonearm mount/armboard differences, is it reasonable to just think of the 1500C as a 1200GR without the pitch control? patient_ot says "no". Well OK, what else is different about it and why is this not the way to think about these two models?
     
  3. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I refer people to the Tech website because it has the most accurate info out there. You can open two browser windows and resize them so they are side by side and read everything yourself. That's better than getting answers from the peanut gallery, which sometimes gets it wrong and shoots from the hip.

    No, not the same.
     
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  4. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    The VTA adjustment works differently, which is a dial/ring that need to be rotated on the GR/G, while the 1500C has a push/pull way of adjustment.
    The tonearm of the GR/G is fully manual, while the 1500C has a built in auto lift, which is an electrical component (idk how it works so idk if it has any impact on the performance).
    The plinth of the 1500C is less solid than the GR while the G has a more solid plinth than the GR.
    Idk about more significant differences other than the lack of pitch adjustment and built in preamp.
    I think the feet on the GR might be different from the 1500C too but I’m not sure.
    I’ve heard that the tonearm lift is a bit more fluently dropping the tonearm on the GR compared to the 1500C (“drooping tonearm lift”), but I’m not sure if it’s supposed to be that way.
    From what I’ve seen so far the 1500C motor is more or less the same as the GR motor, but significantly different from the G.

    Edit: you should search the forums if you’re looking for a sound comparison between the 1500C and GR.
    Such a comparison has probably been done already by someone.
    Otherwise, you could start a thread about it.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  5. riverrat

    riverrat Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    Thanks folks
    I think I am probably a GR customer, even though I don't need the pitch control.
     
  6. RPM

    RPM Forum Resident

    Location:
    Easter Island
    I ask for confirmation from a technical point - can anyone recognize the description of the patent being in use on the Technics turntables? If this is it, one thing bugs me: it's not a Panasonic patent, but some other company that is known for automotive workso_O. That would mean the legendary speed control of a Technics tt is no longer an in-house invention. It is also interesting to note that it was around in 2009, just before mk2 cease of production. But before speculating we need to know for sure what's that patent. BTW what's "adjusted expiration" if expiration is fixed by law, as said earlier?
     
  7. JohnQVD

    JohnQVD bought too many records this week

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    The startup torque (1.8 kg-cm) is lower on the 1500C and 1200 mk7 than the 1200GR (2.2). This could indicate that the motor is different than the GR, but the same as the mk7. It’s difficult to know what the difference is apart from that, because that’s the spec that’s published.

    The platter (2.0 kg) is lighter than the GR (2.5), and slightly heavier than the mk7 (1.8). The whole unit is 1.6 kg lighter even though it has the additional electronics of the built-in phono pre. The mk7 is 300 g lighter than the 1500C. The 200 gram difference in the platter is a good chunk of that difference.

    It’s probably more reasonable to think of the 1500C as the 1200 mk7 with a slightly heavier platter, with a built-in phono pre and included cartridge, but without the pitch slider, reverse, and stylus light.
     
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  8. Kostas

    Kostas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens,GR.
    Everything has tolerances but the human race have made robots, computers and CNC machines that I trust more than the human hand that makes a cartridge and then puts it on a tonearm. When it comes to objects being the same I trust more a board with SMD caps than ten cartridges made by an employee who can get tired after a few hours of work.
     
  9. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Err yes? That properly automated production produces more accurate results is stating the obvious... I don’t quite get the point of it.
     
  10. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    I love mine, 0 regrets.
     
  11. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    Good post

    A couple of thoughts:
    The motors may be the same and the controller calibrated to a higher starting I (~torque) due to the heavier platter.
     
  12. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    The patent is for a sensor only, not the speed control system. A controller, algorithm, etc.

    That is a magnetic device, doesn't Technics use an optical encoder?
     
  13. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    The G has two motors I thought.
     
  14. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    They are close cousins but the tonearms are different. You also get a hinged dust cover with the 1500C, while the MK7 is set-on style. The MK7 comes with a DJ slipmat instead of a rubber mat that you get with the 1500C. The MK7 also has adjustable torque and braking speed.
     
  15. Pali Gap

    Pali Gap Whiskey, mystics and men

    Location:
    Under the bridge
    In the simplest terms, a GR costs $1700 usd vs $1200 for the 1500C which includes a preamp and cartridge. That really tells you what you need to know in terms of build quality and materials. Whether or not that price difference is justified by the performance or playback quality will be up to the individual. I think most would agree the preamp and cartridge used have far more significant influence on what you hear. It is not reasonable to think of the 1500C as a GR without pitch control.
    You may be interested in the upcoming SL-100C release like many of us.
     
    riverrat likes this.
  16. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    *rotors
    ;)
     
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  17. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    2 rotors/fields
    1 stator/armature
    ???
    Interesting
     
  18. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    The two magnet rings are the rotors that rotate above and below the coils (stators):

    [​IMG]
    1200G/GAE has coils only at one side of the PCB.

    [​IMG]
    The SL-1000R has two rotors and two stators; coils on both sides of the PCB.
     
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  19. elvisizer

    elvisizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose
    this kinda got buried under 2 quick pages of posts about spindles . . .anyway, I ended up getting an AT33PTG/II - it sounds like that will work with my SUT on the 1:20 setting and it's got a good rep for compatibility with the 1200's arm even though it's a bit short. I've got some 4-6 mm mats and I also ordered a delrin spacer so that shouldn't be an issue. Very curious to see how it compares to the old Hana once it gets here.
     
  20. Davey

    Davey NP: Melanie De Biasio ~ Blackened Cities (2016 LP)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Are you using the Mytek Brooklyn in your profile for MM phono stage with the Bob's Sky 20 SUT? If so, I'd set the SUT to the 1:10 ratio since the Mytek has really high gain, I think around 55dB in the MM setting, which would give you more overload margin.
     
  21. elvisizer

    elvisizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose
    for the current cart (Hana SL) I do use the 1:10, but for the 33 the chart from bob's says that 1:20 would match better . . .We'll see, if it does overload I'll give it 1:10 instead.
    The brooklyn is actually the last component I'm planning to replace in my system- a new dac and a separate phono preamp will replace that once I get around to it.
     
  22. Davey

    Davey NP: Melanie De Biasio ~ Blackened Cities (2016 LP)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    OK, but Bob's chart doesn't account for a 55dB gain MM phono stage, the extra 26dB would give you over 80dB gain, which is way too much. But sure, try it both ways, no harm :)
     
  23. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    AT33PTG/II
    output 0.3 mV
    Gain 55 dB x 560 ~ 170 mV
    With 10:1 1.7 V
    20:1 3.4 V

    what is the sensitivity of the line section you are feeding?

    so you feed this the phono signal? Benchmark Media HPA-4
    It has a gain of 256 x 0.5 dB ~ 128 dB?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  24. elvisizer

    elvisizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose
    jeez that is a lot i didn't realize the mytek's MM had that much gain

    yep, analog out of the mytek goes into the HPA-4.
     
  25. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    Do you even a SUT?

    follow up email exchange with Mytek tech support revealed the internal phono board’s gain as fixed at 69.1db for MM cartridges and 86.5db for MC variants (which on paper at least seems more than sufficient).

    the 86.5 will output over 6 V at 100% volume!
    Based on 0.3 mV
    The 69.1 ~ 0.85 V
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021

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