The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

Basically all of those examples are product properties that apply to a broad range of products (i.e. any luxury product), they aren’t really unique to a very limit group of products that sets it apart from other products.
A correlation can be found between many products if you’re looking at very common properties like those.
That’s an observation, not an opinion.
So far there’s no example of a correlation between the two that’s really unique for specifically those two or a very limited group of products where these two belong to.
Only a very general correlation.
The example that comes closest to being specific is that it’s a technical product, but even that is still a quite common product property.

Just a thought experiment:
If you would describe all of the product properties mentioned before and made a list of which products would comply to all of those properties... how long would that list be?
Would that list be short enough to be able to guess the right product in a few tries?

 

The only corrolation I can see is that the collectors are men

 

same, i'm very interested in this. I figure that if you take a MKII in healthy condition and do those core three mods that you've listed then you're left with the main possible differences being the arm (tolerances etc), platter weight/damping and the motor.....?

I have the GR and love it enough to ponder getting another one for a 2nd system, but can't really justify. Then I began considering the MKII with mods route. Less about money maybe, and more of an exercise to experience the result first hand.

 

Doing incremental upgrades to my MKII has been a ton of fun and each step has yielded better and better performance. The only thing I could really do now to it is to replace the tonearm, which I am not sure how much that would get me. I asked Kevin at KAB and he recommended using an SL-1500C tonearm. Might give it a try someday.

As much as I want a 1200G or GR, I would want to hear evidence from people that it can outperform a fully KAB-modded 1200 MKII.

It will also be nice if people start posting guides on how to do the KAB tonearm upgrade with these newer models since the tonearm assembly is different. Not sure that will ever happen because if you screw up, you are out a lot of cash.

 

I had more time to look at the data and get more precise peaks. I'm using Audacity's spectrum tool which isn't too flexible, so I did some resampling and tweaked bin sizes to better see peaks vs. weighted averages. Better to get more precise measurements if anyone might use them as reference...

ART9XI 6.5Hz
ART9XA 8.3Hz
OC9XML 6.3Hz
VM540ML 7.0Hz
150SA on a 150MLX body 7.6Hz

These numbers make sense to me. The 10Hz peak I saw on the ART9XA earlier turned out to be one of several peaks with too much weight given by Audacity's rounding and large bin size.

(I'll do some subjective comparisons of these AT carts in the near future. Might be interesting to get a VM95ML in the mix too.)

 

9000. The 900 had the iconic look, but the 9000 was Saab's most ambitious project.
The 9000 began development in 1977 as a co--organized project between Lancia and Saab, then when it was introduced in 1986 the body design was done by a designer from Alfa Romeo.

 

this is excellent info! is it possible to measure with different mats? i have thought and heard that a good damped mat (e.g. Herbies way excellent II) will reduce the amplitude on the resonant peaks.

 

no, no, no
It boggles the mind how strong the correlation is.
The fact that you agree that there is a correlation is proof.

 

Another component of correlation.
I'm guessing older also (based on polls in this and watch forums)
Greater disposable income

Another correlation
Watches: mechanical to smart
Hifi: analog/systems to digital/iPhone earbuds

 

I'm not sure if this was Volvo or Saab, but one had an accident investigation team comprised of doctors and engineers. They would investigate accidents, types of injuries, what caused them, etc., and try to incorporate what was learned to make the cars safer. They would actually truebto respond rapidly to the scene if possible.

One also had a very novel restraint system. When a car hits something the occupants are propelled forward and the engine driven rearward. What they did was attach a cable to the engine, run to a pulley in back of the front seats and attached to the seat belt anchors.

As the people moved forward and engine rearward the forces cancelled. The engine moved less, the people restrained. The cable had a link designed to snap at a certain point so not too much force was applied.
Clever

 

As long as it’s not very specific, it proves nothing. One can always find a correlation if one looks hard enough.
That’s not much different from conspiracy theorists that see all sorts of far fetched patterns and correlations in order to prove something they believe in.

Just as strong as for almost any other type of luxury item.

 

YOU proved it...again

at first you said no correlation 'I do not see it'
Now you see the light.

 

I still don't see a correlation between the two that's unique to those two products.

 

I think the decreased amplitude from damping wouldn't shift the peak much, just make it less pronounced. It'll require more precise measurements regardless (same number of samples from the same recording compared). I actually have the Way Excellent II mat on the way to me, I was hoping it would help the static buildup problem I'm having with the stock rubber mat. I'll run a few tests once I get it.

 

awesome ! what thickness did you get?
I have used them on all my recent turntables and they do sound the best. currently using a 4mm on my 1200 GR.

 

Nice, would be interesting to see some before/after screenshots!

 

All car companies have field safety engineers who examine crashed vehicles that meet certain criteria - ie., death(s), fire, etc.. Learnings are of course used to improve designs. I was a District Manager for a german car company for years - I knew people who did this for several companies.

Also, break-away motor mounts are not new either and certainly not limited to just one or two manufacturers. ...They are commonplace, and may even be required by NHTSA. ..The mounts work in concert with other engineered nuances to force the engine downward rather than into the passenger compartment. Utilization of a cable was less common, but clearly not entirely necessary to accomplish the task of keeping passengers in the passenger compartment, and the engine out of it

As for SAABs, I love them! ..SAAB was an engineering-driven car company that made very space efficient, safe, and fun-t0-drive cars. Alas, their styling was quirky (though I loved it) and their management was not particularly good at understanding the challenges of the US car market - the then largest car market in the world.

 

I ordered a 4mm as well, since Herbie's recommended it for Technics on their web site. I do wonder how much difference the thickness makes.

 

Those who have a certain need to collect are most likely also smaller men, while the non collector are larger.

 

probably diminishing returns past a certain point- but much thinner could be too thin. I like the 4mm because it adds height to the platter and does improve the sound vs. the stock or any other mat i have tried.

 

I can't help you with my opinion on a direct comparison, but I know there is a guy that would gladly give you his opinion on another forum. He has many turntables, including an SP10, old 1200s, and a 1200G. I believe he has modded at least one of the old 1200s extensively.

I don't think I would put a 1500C tonearm on an old 1200. If anything, you'd want to pick one of the other new Tech tonearms, or maybe something completely different depending on wants/needs. The 1500C is the cheapest new tonearm that Tech makes, maybe that's why he suggested it.

I don't think I would bother doing irreversible (or hard to reverse) mods on a new Tech unless you really know what you are doing. Reversible mods are fine.

 

statistics or it didn't happen

 

Does anyone know the diameter of the stock mat for a G? I’m planning to get a 4mm Way Excellent II and want the right size.

 

Yeah, would love to hear his perspective! That's a good point on the mods for the new Tech. Really expensive if you screw it up. I just find it hard to believe that a new 1200 GR could be a significant improvement over a fully KAB-modded 1200 MKII, all else being equal (cartridge, headshell, damper, etc.).

You'd recommend one of the Technics arms for the GR or R then instead?

Thanks!

 

Now you are qualifying and narrowing the definition to suit your position.

btw: the owner of the forum started a watch thread.