The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

The Leroy Hutson record looks like a Scorpio reissue. Their stuff is not good. I have a different Hutson album reissued by them and the quality is poor though the music is great.

Basically I think your problem has more to do with the records than your gear. Research any record before buying.[/QUOTE]
You're right but sometime it's impossible to get an original if there is not other reissue.

 

Indeed it is difficult with some albums. This is why I don't stick to vinyl only and play and enjoy other formats. I'd rather have a well mastered CD than a sub-par or outright crap vinyl reissue. Reissues must be looked at on a case by case basis. The number of labels doing high quality reissues is relatively small.

 

Finally! finally! someone else points out that the 2m range find dirt everywhere, even where there should be none aka on vacume cleaned lps, even on a couple that I had sent off to be professionally cleaned by a company who do this for a living. That was the last straw with me and the 2m blue

Joni's Blue is a great example of a used record that I've never found a good copy of and I've had 3, 1 of which is in excellent to near mint condition, the end of the title track is an igd factory!

 

Hello guys,

I have recently got an SL1210GR and I have now an opportunity to exchange for less money the current cartridge with a AT-OC9XSH or AT-OC9XML and I am not so sure either would make a big change. The current setup is with an VM750SH, which I like a lot, I had previously briefly had an AT-VM95EN for testing and switching to the VM750SH was a big change. I use cambridge audio alva duo for preamp and I hear it's pretty good for MM, but not as good for MC. Do I have to change the preamp as well in the same time with the cartridge if I go that way, or this preamp would suffice for the beginning? The further setup is preamp going to an denon avr 3700h cd line. The front speakers (canton chrono 90DC are connected to an atoll 100 signature power amp which is connected with denon fronts preaouts. I know, it not the ideal analog setup, but this is for now, and as I was saying, the differences between VM750SH and AT-VM95EN were impressive even with this setup. So, it would make a big difference to exchange the current VM750SH with either AT-OC9XSH or AT-OC9XM? I am not so sure about tonearm/cartridge compliance, I have looked everywhere, but couldn't find the tonearm effective mass info, I mean not officially, Is it 12gr? Do I also need to change the preamp? If I do, what would be a good choice under 700-800 eur/usd?

Thank you!

 

Not too long ago, we had a AT-VM740ML versus AT-OC9XML thread, was kind of interesting, some good comments and info along the way, though I'm not sure it was quite as helpful as I thought it might be in the beginning, and there were some initial setup issues. In any case, the thread is The Audio-Technica MicroLine Battle - VM740ML vs OC9XML , though the samples linked have mostly been taken down now. Below are a couple dropbox links to the first movement from the Concierto de Aranjuez, this one with Siegfried Behrend on guitar and Reinhard Peters conducting the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, first one the VM740ML, and the other the OC9XML ...

Dropbox - Aranjuez_VM740ML_MS.flac - Simplify your life
Dropbox - Aranjuez_OC9XML_MS.flac - Simplify your life

The two frequency responses are pretty close after I was able to get the capacitance low enough, below is the spectrum analysis of the files, red is the VM740, while blue is the OC9XML ...

 

Off the top of your head do yo you recall the pf number you got the capacitance down to?

 

The copy to look for is the one mastered by our host with Kevin Gray. I don't think it's in print anymore but copies are floating around out there. Probably better luck in shops rather than the very high prices online. Anyway, it will not play back with audible IGD so long as your stylus is not worn and you have a decent advanced tip and the cart is set up properly.

Joni Mitchell – Blue (2007, 180g, Gatefold, Vinyl)

If you can't get a copy of that one I'd recommend a CD version honestly. Old used bin vinyl copies are likely to be groove worn or with baked in IGD per your experience. You'd probably have to try as many as 5-10 copies to get a good 70s pressing that isn't damaged in some way. Just the way things are with this album.

 

The phono preamp was very close to zero (removed the 100pF SMB capacitor on the board), and the cabling was under 100pF, maybe 80pF. I didn't measure this tonearm and modified DIN cable when connected to the preamp with my test setup, just measured it with the capacitance meter, though I did connect the turntable ground to signal return to measure the full effective capacitance of cable and tonearm.

 

Thanx, my 740 ML is operating with the phono pre set at 100pf, and the total cabling probably 75 or 80 pf.
I went to that comparison thread and you had talked about capacitance on the ground wire -that I have not accounted for and I wondered if it is indeed a factor to consider.

 

Well, it's not capacitance on the ground wire, but you just have to account for all the capacitance. If using coax cabling, then it is pretty straightforward since the shield and signal return are the same, but with a DIN cable or shielded twisted pair cables, there is capacitance between the + and - signals, but also from each to the shield. When cables and turntable return are connected to the phoo preamp, the shield is likely connected to the - signal, so that capacitance cancels, but you have to add the capacitance between + and - signal lines, and between + and shield. Depending on the geometry, it may double.

 

I know I'd feel a lot better about the capacitance to the 1200GR f I could use my other phono pre with a zero cap. setting, but in that scenario it foils my AT mono 3 cart usage because that cart. hums in that other pre.
Oh well..

 

Perhaps slightly OT, but the current and readily available Rhino reissue is apparently in the same packaging, but a later mastering done by Kevin Gray (reads KG @CA in dead wax). Any idea if this one is also good? Thanks!

 

I've not heard it. It could be worth a try. The one I linked is definitely AAA. Not sure if the later one is or not. Same deal happened with some Van Morrison albums. Recuts that were not AAA. Again, not sure on the Joni Blue/CA recut.

 

Yeah, forgot about that analog vs. digital issue. I have the earlier SH/KG Moondance, and it’s excellent. I’m not sure how one would really identify the earlier Blue in the store if the record is sealed. The bar code and hype stickers seem to be identical. Is there any way to differentiate?

 

I would go with the XML, simply because the XSH is a Shibata.
IME those Shibata tips require very minute and precise setup/adjustment, while having no significant benefits over Microline.
It should work fine with the turntable as long as you’re using a lightweight headshell.
Idk about the Alva Duo, but I owned its predecessor, the Azur 651P.
Should work fine as a starting point I think, but you should upgrade it down the road to get the most out of the cartridge.
I’m using a SPL Phonos that I like for its neutrality and versatility, but it might be outside your preferred pricerange.
I’ve seen quite some recommendations for the Lehmann Audio Black Cube SE, so that one might be worth looking in to.

 

The earlier version I linked comes in a thick Stoughton jacket and has a gatefold and the loose RTI outer bag instead of shrink. Not sure about the newer one. Probably can't tell 100% without cracking open unless it has shrink instead of the loose outer bag. I don't know offhand, sorry.

 

Thank you guys!

 

I've tried at home, in my system 8 or 9 phono preamps in the last 6 months, including both Cambridge Solo and Duo.
I didn't care too much for them, especially when paired with AT-95 carts. I thought they sounded ok, nothing amazing.

I would get a Schiit Mani or a ifi Zen phono over the Cambridges. But in the end I would get neither of those. Stay with me :

Nowadays I use a Lehmann Black Cube SEII with the 1200GAE. It's detailed, clean sounding and has good low end. I think its sound signature is in the same ballpark as the Duo, you just get more of everything. 4x more ? No
If you want a phono pre that enhances the signal from the TT without altering the sound too much, it's a good choice.
Forget it if you have a neutral amp and neutral speakers, let's say a Cambridge Evo and Kef LS50. You'll get a super detailed but lifeless sound (think dry low end)

At 999€ you could say it's overpriced if you only take sound quality into consideration. A decent % of the price goes into the very nice build quality and the fact that it's made in Germany.
The Lehmann is great, but for me it is impossible to recommend because of its price. And even though I like it with my 1200GAE, I didn't like it that much on the 1500C I had prior. It can definitely make a TT sound like a CD player if paired incorrectly. And if your records are crap or dirty, oh boy will you know it.

However, it's on sale right now (800€) at Cobra in Paris. I buy from them, they're ok and they should be able to ship to Romania.

Here's my personal and humble suggestion :

Pro-Ject Tube Box S2, with the Accu Box S2 battery power supply.
The tube part is only a buffer, it's not a true tube preamp. Some people like to **** on it because of that. Those people most likely have never heard it in their systems, so don't pay attention to them.

The Tube runs for 379 and the power supply for 259. You can very easily get the lot for under 600.
It will give you a hint of warmth in the upper bass and mids, very pleasant vocals and it will make ****ty/dull records sound a bit more fun. As a tradeoff (VS the Lehmann anyway) you get a bit less detail retrieval. The Accu Box is really worth it, no joke.
When I paired it with a 2M Bronze on my 1500C I thought the whole sounded ****ing great. Punchy low end, full bodied mids, sparkling treble.

The Tube Box + Accu Box combo is my definition of a bargain. It's well built, looks cute and for twice the price of the Cambridge Duo, you actually get twice the sound, instead of the usual 5-15% improvement.
And even though I had nothing bad to say about the Schiit, ifi, Rega, non-tube Pro-ject and MoFi preamps I auditioned, they brought nothing to the table.

TLDR : the Lehmann sounds high end. The Pro-ject sounds ****ing cool.

 

Well, I don't think it's true the tubes are used as a buffer, in most of their designs they are part of the gain stages, often with an opamp used for the output buffer for low impedance, though in this case, it doesn't use opamps so probably a FET output buffer. But as you say, the circuit topology shouldn't really matter much to the consumer. There aren't many pure tube phono preamps out there now, most use transistors in some part of the circuit, especially ones that handle LOMC carts.

 

And here I am spreading misinformation
You most likely know more than me so I believe you.
Apologies for my honest mistake.

 

It doesn't really matter, they are kind of tight-lipped on the actual circuit topology and don't provide any schematics or even functional diagrams, so it has to be pieced together from scraps of information passed on to reviewers and such. Kind of silly that they leave so much to guesswork when they could easily provide more insight to their products.

 

I have mine 10ft away, I can open it up and pm you a picture if it's of interest.

 

No, I don't care, there are plenty of pictures of the insides online, but you can't really tell how the circuit is laid out from a picture. I just meant by my comment that you would think it would be in their best interest to dispel some of the misinformation and talk more about how and why the tubes are used, but they don't.

 

I just recently received the SL-1210GR I ordered from Hard-to-Find HiFi in Great Britain. It came with this power cord that has the huge 3-prong UK wall plug with a 10-amp fuse in it. I'm wondering if I can just use the standard US 3- prong cord that will fit into our USA wall sockets. The female end looks exactly the same on both cords, so I don't think that's an issue, nor is the voltage matching, as the manual clearly states that 110v is in spec. I can always get an adapter, but that's just another added unit in the chain, and I already have a US cord handy. Does anyone know if using the US power cord on a British unit is ok? I've contacted the vendor who I haven't heard back from yet, and Technics USA, who referred me to Panasonic UK, but wouldn't answer the question.
Thanks in advance for any advice

 

I’m not sure about the GR, but KAB once told me the G models were probably all the same, save the cord. He said they use switching power supplies, and when you look at the service manual, there is only one power supply PC board. So, if that’s correct the label is meaningless, and the G can run on anything between 120 and 220VAC.

Again, this is all speculation and based on the G model, so I take no responsibility for this!