I remember Hooligans being around on the shelves in stores. I never owned it, but the track listing IMO is great. Having significantly improved my collection of music by the Who as this thread has gone on, last night I found a CD in my collection I forgot I owned---The Who BBC.......It felt like I got a new CD in the mail for free.
The actual biz realities of rock are always underdiscussed in rock bio and memoir. I have definitely read that Kenney was a full partner of equal status to rest of band, and that Rog hated this, which one might assume means "one-quarter owner of whatever business entity took in the income of the rock band The Who" earned but I'm sure it was more complicated than that. Anecdote in either Kenney or Rog's memoir says Rog got pissed at Kenney for not wanting to kick in tens of thousands as some sort of severance for Pridden when band stopped touring...? Might be misremembering. One can also assume, I think, that from 1989 on Kenney no longer had that partnership or ownership, but who knows....maybe someone reading this??--if they bought him out, did the tricky "this biz entity you are part of is DISSOLVED" and then the three guys formed a new one 89 on...who knows, no one seems to discuss it in detail in any of the books.
Thanks for posting this, I had not seen it before and really enjoyed it. Pete is really plowed here. Love this song, I bought the Uniforms single way back when to get it. The concept of "dancing all over your problems" was one of Pete's pet topics then.
re--the Dance it Away clip....I can't remember the last time I saw any band above the club level be this exploratory, vulnererable, creative in real time with opportunity to get it all wrong---this is wild from one of the biggest bands in the world like 15 years into their career.
Your definitely ahead of me on books about The Who....I've only read Maximum R&B (mostly pictures)and Pete's book. I probably just learned as much from your post as I will from Kenney's book on the topic. Thanks for the comments. I have other books about the Who to read in my back log...Dave Marsh etc..
If I'm understanding correctly, they performed the same show four nights in a row. So the performance in the film/on the record must be one of the other three, as you said.
There's a link or post in this forum or maybe elsewhere that many of those '79 concerts were multi track recordings and they are apparently in the possession of a few engineers-mixers from that tour. In general reply, Shea '82 with KJ was officially released, and Toronto '82, and the poorly mixed Essen show from '81. The UK '81 Tour if at all recorded or more from '79 would be most welcome.
The Wikipedia entry for Hooligans said that the soundtrack version of "5:15" was included. That's not true. I listened to my Hooligans LP this evening, and its "5:15" is not the soundtrack version at all. It sounds identical to the original 1973 Quadrophenia album version, with its first 10 seconds edited out (the footsteps and train station intro). I don't have the Hooligans CD -- maybe that has the "5:15" soundtrack mix?
Hooligans was my gateway to The (pre Face Dances) Who as a friend made a tape of it in 1983 or so and from then on I was hooked, buying up any record I could get my hands on. The obsession continues to this very day
I would just like to take this opportunity to marvel at just how awful lots of "needledrops" are. Worn/dirty LP: check. Poor tracking stylus/cartridge: check. Mono, on-camera ambient sound: check. (The record isn't a sonic marvel, but it's an order of magnitude better than what's heard in that video).
Too Late the Hero Studio album by John Entwistle Released 23 November 1981 Recorded 1979–May 1981 Studio Crystal Studios, Los Angeles and Ramport Studios, London Genre Pop rock new wave hard rock arena rock Length 42:07 Label ATCO (US) WEA (UK) Producer John Entwistle Dave "Cyrano" Langston Too Late the Hero is the fifth solo studio album by English musician John Entwistle, released on 23 November 1981 by ATCO Records in the US, and by WEA in the UK. This was his only solo album of the 1980s and his last album to chart. The album peaked at No. 71 on the US Billboard 200, making it his best-selling album and his only album to reach the Top 100.[1] "Talk Dirty" was the first single released from the album and it received some airplay in the US on album-oriented rock radio, peaking at No. 41 on the US Mainstream Rock Tracks chart. "Too Late the Hero" was the second single to be released from the album and it would be his only single to chart on the UK Singles Chart, peaking at No. 76. It also peaked at No. 101 on the US Billboard Bubbling Under Hot 100 chart, making it his best-selling single all round. "Too Late the Hero" was the only single from the album that had a music video filmed for it. The album was recorded as a core trio of musicians that were Entwistle on bass guitar with Joe Walsh of the Eagles providing all guitar work and Walsh's former Barnstorm bandmate Joe Vitale on drums. Billy Nicholls also sang backing vocals on most of the tracks. John Entwistle — vocals; four-string bass guitar; eight-string bass guitar; piano; synthesizers Joe Walsh — acoustic and electric guitars; piano; cabassa; waste container; tambourine; limps; synthesizer Joe Vitale — drums; percussion; piano; flute; clavinet; timpani; metronome Billy Nicholls — backing vocals (1, 3–6, 9) Production and artwork John Entwistle — producer Dave "Cyrano" Langston — producer Joe Walsh — executive producer Joe Vitale — executive producer Dave "Cyrano" Langston — engineering Neil Hornby — assistant engineer Jim Hill — assistant engineer Jeff Eccles — assistant engineer Mike Reese — mastering Gered Mankowitz — album cover design, concept, cover photo, photography 1. "Try Me" 3:55 2. "Talk Dirty" 4:06 3. "Lovebird" 4:51 4. "Sleeping Man" 3:55 5. "I'm Coming Back" 4:01 6. "Dancing Master" 4:23 7. "Fallen Angel" 4:40 8. "Love Is a Heart Attack" 5:13 9. "Too Late the Hero" 7:25 -------------------------------------------------- This is an interesting album by John, and he moves a little sideways from the stuff we are used to hearing from John. It is cool to me that Joe Walsh and Joe Vitale are involved in this album. I can't pretend I am very well versed in this album, as this is the first time I have ever heard it, but it sounds like a pretty decent album to me on this first listen. The opening song Try Me, is essentially John's run through the whole lets try something a little more pop thing that Pete was going through with the Who, and the opening song really does have an easily digestible rock/pop feel, and Joe Walsh's harmonised guitar lines work well here to highlight this. Talk Dirty comes in with a very cool, somewhat funk feel and gets the listener straight into the song. The production is quite eighties and the feel is also right in the firing line of eighties music. Again the song stands up pretty well, and I think it works well. Lovebird comes in at track 3 and it has a nice acoustic and slide guitar. We have John leaning to a type of rock ballad here. It is amazing how frequently track three in the eighties was the ballad/love song or whatever. This is a solid track and the bridge works well. I think John sounds pretty convincing. Sleeping Man opens with the chunking rock guitar and a melodic piano in the background. The verse are accented by a rhythm guitar mixing up the sound and delivery. This is a fairly steady beat, and the song comes across pretty well. I'm Coming Back sounds a little more typical John, to my ears at least. we are back in pretty straight rock territory and I think it works well. I think Joe Walsh colours these tracks very well. We do have layered vocals that work with the idea of a smooth polished eighties song. Overall this is a really good rock song, that has enough polish to have been played on eighties radio... and it has just a hint of the seventies rock vibe for the traditionalists I think. Dancing Master seems such an odd title for a John track.... and sure enough we open up with a funky bass and drum beat. The song kind of moves into a disco kind of variation that leans more to the funk that the pop. We have that kind of Chic , or whoever layered main vocal, and it is slightly bizarre, ebing Entwistle, but it seems to work pretty well. We get a big fat bass lead, that takes us into a play off type thing between John and Joe.... An odd song for John ... to me at least. Fallen Angel has the steady pulsing bass, and then a nice measured chord progression in the intro. I like the arrangement here, and the chords and the vocals work really well together for me.... for some reason it kind of reminds me a Styx.... or something like that. I think this is a pretty cool song on first listen, and could hear this on eighties radio as a deep track. Love Is a Heart Attack sounds like Joe Walsh could have co-written it. It sounds like it could have fit on the Long Run album... it just barely reminds me of Those Shoes. It ends up finding its own personality, and John delivers it well. We even get a bridge that kind of has a Strawberry Fields feel about it. Then we end on the title track Too Late The Hero. We have a wall of thick synth that has a sound that seems like a flute, but is another synth I believe, and it is a nice melodic line. Then the song moves into a thick burbling synth. this dies down into a piano drums and bass arrangement, with the end of each line get the return of the synth. The change that comes in, has an almost textbook eighties sound. This track has a lot of flavours and I think it will come down to whether you are offended by the synths. I think it is really well written and arranged. It does sound a lot less like Entwistle ... from my experiences, and I can hear the influence of someone in there, but can't put a name to it. Essentially though it is a very good closing song. I reckon this is a pretty solid album, but whether it is something that Who fans were taken by, you guys will have to let me know. I really could see this appealing to a wide market, but it is a very different sounding album for John, and also a chnage up in writing style too. Anyway please let us know what you think of this album. I'll save posting the next album until it seems everyone has had their input regarding this one. I posted it as the whole album because I was able to, and it is nicer to sit and listen in one listen the 9 listens ... in my opinion. Cheers Mark
The thing could rock harder, but that's not what Too Late The Hero is all about. I like the album a lot. No joking a around, just good playing singing and melodies/musical drama. John must of paid a fortune to have the red suit made, and probably thought he looked pretty cool in it. Wonder if anybody else did?
I think Try Me would be remembered more if it was a Who song. It's a worthy A-side but that doesn't mean it would've charted well. For me, Try Me, Had Enough and Boris The Spider were Entwistle's best chance at an A-side. I like this album overall though it is a bit generic sounding.
I had probably flipped by plenty of used copies of this album without buying it when I was first exposed to any of the songs - John performing the title track as his "solo spotlight" during the 1989 Who Tour. I learned the words from Who audience tapes before I got the album years later. For those who can't get enough "TLTH", here are some high quality outtakes:
I'm afraid after a half dozen listens over a couple of decades I have found NOTHING to like about this record, from recording quality to songs to instrumental work. I found it near disgracefully bad for John as a writer and all the musicians as performers. That said, it's Who-related so I'll give it another try soon, maybe even while we're discussing it here... What I wrote to my Who-show-attending buddy last year, last time I put it on: " I played side two for first time in many years. While my copy may have been a little crummy, I was stunned at how simultaneously tinnily artificial and boomily distant it sounded---like plastic electro sounds recorded from far away. Vitale is a truly terrible drummer, at least on the evidence of this, and Walsh showed none of whatever qualities make him an unlikely guitar hero. The songs were of course all flat and plodding and dumb, and even Entwistle's playing didn't manage to be interestingly virtuoistic. Why Atco issued it a mystery. Another of those "boy wish I could have been at the meeting when some exec heard this and had to decide to be excited about selling it." In a very weird touch, the copyright in the recording is to JOHN's company not the label, a perk that very few even super famous folk had at that time as far as I remember. And likely explains why it isn't on any of the streaming services...."
TALK DIRTY was a big deal for male teens in suburbia for a little while. John is just a big teen if you ask me
Too Late the Hero... ...was the record that taught me that liking a group in no way implies I will like solo albums from members of that group. When I was first building my Who catalog, and loving John as a bassist and occasional singer/songwriter, I saw it in a cutout bin and snagged it. After one play, I rebuked myself for the blind purchase (I should have known that the group love didn't necessarily translate). Sadly, that put me off from exploring any other Entwistle solo albums and decades later I was shocked to see how much I liked some of his earlier efforts. Listening to this now, I may have been too harsh originally. It doesn't really suck, and let's be honest... for 1981, it's not half bad. It still won't be a part of my regular rotation, but my view has softened a bit for sure.
Other than John's first two solo albums, his solo output was very uneven, and Too Late The Hero follows that trend. But that doesn't mean it is the nadir of his entire body of work. The album, like its last few predecessors, has a handful of decent tracks. Sleeping Man, I'm Coming Back, Fallen Angel, and the title track are respectable rock tracks, if not a bit pedestrian. After Whistle Rhymes, Entwistle is better listened to via a nice playlist.
I think that this is a pretty decent album. The bigger problem for John, I believe, is that he couldn’t produce the quantity of good songs needed to follow-up this effort with 3 or 4 more like it over the next 2-4 years.
Too Late The Hero was a cutout bin staple when I became a fan in the early 80s. I'm thankful I didn't buy it until after I'd heard Smash Your Head Against the Wall, or I might never have explored his catalog further. The album is certainly the most musically diverse record he'd made since Whistle Rymes. Unlike his sparsely-produced mid-70s pastiche albums, he creates songs in a variety of styles here. Unfortunately, the production is slick and sterile and the playing is bland and generic. If I had to come up with one word to describe the music here, it would be "stiff." There's no sense of spontaneity or creativity, nothing unusual or unique. It feels very mechanical, a by-the-numbers slice of the AOR of the day. But sadly, the worst thing is the lyrics. This is another installment in John's attempt to write accessible hit songs. One needs a microscope and tweezers to tease out the traces of humor and wit here. There's a few lines in Talk Dirty that show his old skewed perspective ("girls in naked poses/Moses") and Sleeping Man is kind of like a pale shadow of one of his old "bizarre character" songs. The central conceit of Love is a Heart Attack is mildly amusing in a dark way (if sadly prescient of John's own death) and the protagonist in Dancing Master comes across more like a drill sergeant than someone who enjoys getting down. But all these things are few and far between, and come amidst an album which on balance is trying very hard to be relatable to Joe Average Hard Rock Listener. As I've said before, it's really sad to see someone who had such an idiosyncratic perspective water down his lyrics like this in an attempt to sell product. And it didn't even work, unless you think the difference between #126 and #71 on the album chart is worth it.
Too Late The Hero Bland, generic and slick produced unnecessities, designed to cash-in on base of the originator's name - unfortunately typical for its time: So-called rock stars playing with other rock stars on faceless albums, most probably to secure the next snort (which is also reflected in the lyrics)... It's not that it's bad, it's more like the next fast food restaurant opening: it doesn't annoy me, but it bores me to death and I don't want it. In it's timeframe, surely another good reason to proclaim "rock is dead!"...
