Thorens TD-147 / TP-16 II tone arm cart reccomendations

I know topics like these have been done and done, but in my search of the archive - I haven't found specific answers to my questions. So here goes...

Just purchased a TD147 with the TP-16 II tone arm and am trying to figure out the best options for carts and possible pre-amps.

The TT came with an AT Signet MK 110 E which I've heard is a pretty good LOMC cart. I don't know the mileage on the stylus (yet).

I'm replacing my Denon DP300F that has a Denon-110 HOMC on it.

So the questions are:

1. Signet? Seems like people say keep this - it's a superior cart. Thoughts on that? Replace stylus? Or is this overkill for the rest of my vintage mid-level set up (Marantz 2230/Dynaco25s)
2. Denon 110 - go with the known quantity? Is this suitable for the TP-16 II arm?
3. Go with something else entirely like an Ortofon OM30?

I currently don't run a pre-amp with my Denon/Denon to Marantz 2230 set up. If I go with the Signet, I will have to do that. So question #4

4. Knowing my set up and it's strength and limitations, what would you recommend pairing the Thorens/Signet with in terms of a not too expensive pre-amp ($500 or less)?

Thanks for any help on this. This is my first foray in possible LOMC world!

Cheers-

S

 

2. Tp16 mk2 is a lightweight arm with 7gr effective mass. Denon dl110 will not be a good match compliance wise.

 

Thanks for the input - I figured that was the case, and it eliminates one of the options.

 

I have the Tp16 mk1, totally different arm with 15/16gr EM and the denon dl110 is a good fit with this arm.

 

I'm not certain if the compliance is high-enough for that arm, but I must say that the Audio Technica AT33PTG/2 is a superb match for the medium mass arm on my Technics SL-1210GR. The raves surrounding this cartridge are well deserved IMO.

 

Signet made some good cartridges, but many of them are hard to find styli for nowadays unless you want to go with an aftermarket replacement. If you had a Signet body that was similar to one of the current production AT carts, I would say buy a new AT stylus for it. But since you don't, I would simply pick out a complete cartridge from the current AT range. The VM500 series is high-ish compliance and suitable for a lower mass arm.

I would pick out a cartridge before worrying about the phono preamp, especially if you have one built into your receiver that you can use for the time being.

 

Well, I have done some research there, and it turns out the $179 ATN30/31E stylus is a suitable replacement. The Signet matches well with a low mass arm, so maybe that is the way to go?

But I do think it will definitely need a pre-amp as the output is a low .4mV (notice the decimal point). My Marantz 2230 seems to rate at 1.4mV MM....thoughts on that? Or something like the VM500.

 

Your Signet is a real odd duck. LOMC with a user replaceable stylus. Most LOMC aren't made like that - you either buy a new cart or send it out to a pro retipper.

Personally I think $180 + the cost of a LOMC capable preamp that decent (not exactly cheap btw) is a lot of money to spend just to get things up and running. I would set the Signet aside if I were you, and simply buy a decent high output cartridge to get you going. That way you can just use the Marantz phono.

AT VM500 series and Ortofon OM series are good choices for lighter arms like yours. I would decide based on your budget and the condition/cleanliness of your records. Don't go for a more expensive advanced stylus if you have a lot of filthy/old records and no RCM or at least a Spin Clean. Stick with a decent elliptical instead and get it set up and aligned properly with a digital scale and protractor.

 

Yes - probably the way to go. I appreciate your help - also the path of least resistance/possible problems....Cheers!

 

Agreed. See what the Marantz can do with the Thorens first!

 

Another option is to go ahead and get the ATN31E stylus for $179 to keep your Signet and your LOMC dreams alive, and then pair it with a couple Lundahl step up transformers as shown below from http://www.tubes4hifi.com/PH16.htm, either purchased separately from K&K for $86 each, or mounted on PC board to be installed in your own enclosure for $250, or ready to go in enclosure for $300. These are the same MC transformers used in the $2900 Modwright PH9.0 phono preamp, and many others, and sound very good. They would be probably best configured for a gain of 10 (20dB) to step the signal up to normal MM levels for your Marantz inputs ...

 

BTW, I left out one of the price options, so just to be complete in case someone else might be looking at this option, and depending on how handy you are with a soldering iron and DIY stuff, as mentioned you can buy the transformers from K&K Audio for $86 each, and you can also buy the PCB for another $12, so under $200 gets you two transformers and the circuit board. So mount transformers to pc board with whichever jumpers are needed for the gain you want, take a decent interconnect and cut it in half, solder one end to each side of the board, package, and done

 

This is an intriguing option as well. Part of me likes the challenge. I just want to make sure I'm getting the best sound possible with this new TT!

 

I love my TD 147 and I think the TP 16 mk2 is an excellent arm.
I’ve a Shure V15 mk3 on the end of mine and it’s a great match. I’ve got a Jico SAS stylus for it which is just as good as people say it is but I’ve also had the original Shure retipped by Expert Stylus with a paratrace and I just about prefer this. Expert Stylus tested my cartridge as well when they did the retip - total cost was an absolute bargain much cheaper than the Jico.
It’s also possible to buy a Schopper TP63 wand which weighs a hefty 16grams - on EBay from Switzerland - which turns the arm into a heavier mass arm. They cost about $150 plus shipping - I don’t have one but I’ve been thinking about it a lot.
With the two TP63 wands - low and heavy mass - the TP16 can take a pretty wide range of cartridges from low to high compliance. I’m guessing it would take the Denon without a problem with the heavier TP63.

 

I have the Thorens TD-147 also. I believe the tonearm is the TP-16 MkIII but it could be a MkII. I'm pretty sure that the effective mass of the arm is 7.5 grams.

I've enjoyed an Ortofon OM cartridge on the 147 using both the 20 and 30 stylus. Also a Grado Gold 1 cartridge (no hum problems). I briefly used a Denon DL-110 on the 147 and didn't seem to have any tracking problems but I preferred the 110 on my Technics turntable (medium mass arm).

The cartridge that I now have on the 147 is my favorite. It's the Denon DL-301 MkII low output moving coil. It can be had off of eBay for around $300 and to me, has been worth every penny. I got mine from a vendor out of Japan called 2juki. The output from the 301 goes into a Denon AU-300LC step up transformer and then to a Budgie phono pre amp (with upgraded tubes). I've been very pleased with this set up, particularly after the 301 had some hours on it (the mids filled in).

Good luck to you.