Three years into vinyl, where to go from here.....

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Chester0711, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. Riotvan

    Riotvan Member

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Well in such a small room there is no guarantee that the bass drivers on floor standers are in the right position in the room either. His room does open up into another room though so then all bets are off i guess. I just think a pair of small 8 or 10" subs could work. Cross them over high enough and apply enough trapping. We need some pictures of the room though.
     
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  2. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    Nothing wrong with that.....

    [​IMG]
     
  3. pdxway

    pdxway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    I used to think that crossing high enough would work. But how high can one go with subs?

    I have another thread about recreating Japanese drums' feels and found this spl vs freq chart:

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, lots of energy from 63 to 250 Hz. Those subs might help up to 125 Hz? Then the small speakers can't really handle those energy from 125 Hz to 250 Hz. That was why I suggested big speakers with subs in my earlier post. : )
     
    Riotvan likes this.
  4. Marshall_SLX

    Marshall_SLX Rega P9 #1 Fan

    Yep bigger speakers gives you more punch not adding subs (as long as your amp can handle it)... subs at first create the illusion of more punch but eventually you just realise its the same sound with more extension and perhaps a more pressurized room... higher xover points above 100 hz will add punch but then you need additional filtering on your mains otherwise the subs and mains will be overlapping too much and even if you achieve a nice blend a single sub will have localisation issues crossed over that high... most "punch" in my experience occurs from 150 - 350 hz which of course a smaller driver can reproduce but an 8 inch or larger driver in a larger enclosure will do those frequencies with scale and dynamics that the smaller driver just cant mechanically match... bottom line if you arnt truly happy with your core sound adding subs wont be a long term fix... initially its impressive but the "what ifs" eventually start to creep back in.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  5. enfield

    enfield Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex UK
    This thread has highlighted the differences for me between the UK and the US.

    Using sub woofers in a strictly audio set-up is not popular here.Neither is room conditioning.Hardly anyone has a basement to play music in.Receivers have always been unpopular over here as well.Horn speakers don't sell well either..Oh,and its always been 'valves' not 'tubes' on this side of the pond ;)
     
  6. Subagent

    Subagent All I know is What I Read in the Liner Notes

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    US residential construction is generally wood framed, vs what I have seen in the UK and Europe which uses more block and mortar construction. I am guessing that room treatments are less necessary with your heavier walls and floors. We have had both more space to build in, and more trees to build with than you guys over the last 300 years. We use our concrete to pour basements. You put sheds in your back gardens. :p

    I have a Mullard t-shirt that reads, "The Master Valve." Everyone asks me if I am a plumber.

    No idea on the receivers and horns. ;)
     
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  7. Marshall_SLX

    Marshall_SLX Rega P9 #1 Fan

    Just taking a look at your gear and researching it a bit your TT is obviously the jewel in the crown and great to build around... cart and phono are solid performers... amp is ok to run bigger speakers within reason... speakers are your issue here... look for a 3 way floorstander that has a 5 inch or larger mid range and a 7 inch or larger woofer that is -3 at 40 hz, 88 db or higher sensitivity and 6 ohms or higher so your amp can handle it... after that stop upgrading for a while... i built my system around a TT and wish ide gone straight to speakers after i had a reasonable amp
     
    pdxway likes this.
  8. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Wishing You A Crystal Clear Digital Christmas!

    Jimi, wow, you are tough on these speakers, calling them bamboo canes with toy 5" drivers. The 705s have a mid bass driver and (2) oval 5 X 7 bass drivers and not one but (2) ports in the bottom of the speakers. What you are endorsing is the standard shoe box Cerwin Vega design with the 12 or 15" driver, and I understand you can get some nice sloppy, boomy bass from that design, but I can assure you the Polk design is a solid design to reproduce powerful bass, and accurate bass within the price limitations. I am talking about a bamboo cane speaker that normally cost $1,500.00 each, on sale at 53% off, a real find. These speakers weigh about 102 pounds each, they are not bamboo cane speaker cabinets. I think you are sending this man down the wrong road, just my opinion! This design has been adopted by many speaker manufacturers, a "small" footprint. Here is a quick video showing the actual 5 X 7 woofers in the LSi705 speakers, these are quality drivers and please remember, your paying $1,500.00 for two speakers that weigh 102 pounds each, a (4) way design, not JBL L100 speakers at $4,000.00 per pair, and 58.5 pounds each, come on Jimi, cut me some slack here, he would LOVE these speakers. :winkgrin:

     
  9. bever70

    bever70 It's all about the soundstage

    Location:
    Belgium
    Yet one of the best sub-makers (REL) are just 'around the block' from the UK :p!
     
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  10. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I remember the market seeming to change at some point when I was a teenager. Growing up, speakers were wider than they were deep, and then I started seeing that they were getting skinnier and using multiple medium-sized drivers instead of one big one. I remember it being presented as some kind of design revelation, that you could use smaller, easier to control drivers but still get adequate bass response by using two or three of them, and the speakers could take up less real estate. So now we’re in a place where it seems like only a handful of manufacturers are even making 12”+ speakers, and the good ones cost at least $4k.

    Now, I’m pretty happy with my 6.5” drivers and 15” subwoofer, but I can’t help remembering my uncle’s 12” 3-way Kenwood system or my old 15” with horn DJ/PA speakers whenever some music comes up that I remember feeling more than hearing when I had either of those at my disposal. Having said that, it sounds like OP may have trouble getting the JBLs into the room?
     
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  11. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    You are right, I expressed my point of view in a way too rude manner AND I must admit I have zero experience with the Polk 705. Sorry.
     
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  12. Fruff76

    Fruff76 L100 Classic - Fan Club President

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    True story...my dad has a room full of Polk speakers, giant 4 ways etc. he came over about a month ago and I played the JBL L100 for him and the next day I get a text from him asking if I’d sell them. He’s never given me positive feedback on any of the speakers I’ve had. No knock on polk, because I do have a pair (one of my favorite small woofer speakers I’ve ever had), and I think they offer a good value, but they’re not in the same league as the L100’s if you want “punch”
     
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  13. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Wishing You A Crystal Clear Digital Christmas!

    You know, one of the unknowns for me is what music the OP really listens to. I saw his library was posted on Disccogs, but I tried to find it and was unable to. I would agree the LSiM 703, 705 and 707 might not be the perfect hard rock, heavy metal blasting speaker, although I have played lots of old rock, The Beatles, Rod Stewart, but none of the newer melt your head stuff, and if that is what the OP enjoys, the Polk speakers might not be the ticket. I would like to address what Fruff76 said in regard to Polk speakers. I too have owned the large Polk 3 and four way speakers, however, with the exception of the SDA-SRS speakers I owned many years ago, my other Polk purchases have been inexpensive, less than cutting edge offerings. The LSiM series was their flagship, they are in an entirely different ballpark, without question. To be able to get these now, right before they are discontinued was for me a real find, at 50% or more off on the last run of this series! I listen to lots of solo piano, jazz, blues, and classical symphonic music, music that is complex, where you need a speaker in whatever price range you can afford to reproduce the music correctly, and I truly believe the LSiM series of Polk speakers do this, and at 50-53% off it's a great find for me. I believe with the 705's, the OP will get several important things. He will get musical clarity he has not heard before, he will get extreme heavy wood cabinet beauty and unreal construction. He will get quality, well built drivers. He will get a small footprint for his small room, something he must have. He will get a speaker system that will resolve his music beautifully and give him the reproduction and resolution he is searching for. Finally he will get all these things at 50-53% off, it's just a winning combination of qualities in a speaker system. Oh, thanks Jimi for your note back to me. I know I am pushing hard on these Polk LSiM series of speakers, but honestly, for the money they truly are a no brainer, they really do cut the mustard. :agree:

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    So I am noting all of these speakers as people recommend them. Question for those speaking up for the L100's, I see a "Classic" model and a "Century" model depending on where I look and Music Direct shows them as bookshelf? Is this a different bookshelf model. Always thought 3-way were more floorstanding?
     
  15. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    You are welcome... still, those woofers look a bit tiny to my eyes.... sorry again!
     
  16. Fruff76

    Fruff76 L100 Classic - Fan Club President

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    It’s the Classic we’re referring to. JBL calls them bookshelf, but in seriousness, they are not what you think of as the standard bookshelf speaker. Others may have seen this already, but the video click on music direct link) below is my wife and I at Axpona. It may help you understand a little better. Also, sound doesn’t kick in until the 1 min mark

    Music Direct Brand Ambassador Bes Nievera
     
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  17. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    The old L100s from the 70s were called L100 century. They were based on the 4310 and 4311 JBL studio monitors, which were professional models. The old L100 were a huge commercial success and one of the legends of the hi-fi golden age, together with the large Advents and the AR3a. Their foam grilles, square-patterned, are iconic. Just recently, and on the shoulders of such an heritage, JBL decided to reissue a new model which is the JBL L100 classic, which looks very similar to the 70s model but has been completely re-designed and employs completely different (except their size) components.
    All these models are considered belonging to the bookshelf category, even if most people use them on their stands, which elevates them some inches from ground, they are not to be used as floorstanders

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    In regards to what I listen too, well I am all over the spectrum. I woke up to Pat Metheny - New Chattaqua this morning and ended my morning listening to Freddie Hubbard - Open Sesame. Yesterday evening consisted of The Raconteurs - Help Us Stranger upon arrival home from a long day at work followed by Marvin Gaye - Anthology over the dinner hour.

    I dont have a genre really, I mean, I guess I don't listen to a lot of traditional country, but I love Jason Isbell and Sturgill Simpson, but not sure if they even fall into the genre or what genre they would be considered. I also like Johnny Cash so.....

    I like the Blues, but admittedly it is light in my collection. I also like 80's and 90's rap and hip hop. The new stuff is fine , but not quite as appealing to me....might be a nostalgia thing.

    Jazz from the Hard Bop era through the funk 70's and cheesy 80's is delightful...

    and of course rock...of all sorts Classic, Acoustic, Hard Rock, Soft Rock, Pop Rock.....Metal is thin but hell, I am even stalking down some good copies of earlier Metallica (hate the new stuff, which is anything after Black Album in my eyes) and Iron Maiden.

    Light on classical, but love anything with a cello. Love the sound of a cello. It is so brooding.

    At any rate, I do music like a foody tries food. I try all types, all artists.....so that may make things more muddy.
     
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  19. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I believe the cabinets are just too short (25”) to really be classified as floorstanding speakers, but I wouldn’t really consider them bookshelf speakers. JBL makes a pair of stands specifically for raising them about 6 inches off the floor (and also tilts them back slightly), so they are effectively floorstanding speakers.

    Century is an older model, and I am assuming you are seeing used listings for them? The ones currently available brand new are L100 Classic.
     
  20. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    Wow they are bigger then a bookshelf for sure. Are most 3-ways meant to sit on a stand like that?
     
  21. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Wishing You A Crystal Clear Digital Christmas!

    Well, with what I am reading, I promise you, the LSiM series is the speaker for you for about $1,500.00 for the pair. I have enjoyed the discussion here, and to close this thing out, I am offering a concert for Jimi, enjoy those big woofers! If they are not large enough, look at those beauties behind them, put your Stax headphones on for this one, Wo!!! :yikes:

     
  22. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    You need to get a JUKEBOX, my friend!

    I already have six of them, but if I hit the lottery, this one will also be mine ...

     
  23. Dhreview16

    Dhreview16 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London UK
    If the OP likes his Yamaha amp, then it seems that Speakers should be the upgrade focus.
     
  24. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Most large 3-ways now are the tall, skinny kind with some sort of feet/spikes included in the design, usually with the drivers positioned up at seated listening height. I believe the main reason you want the L100s on the stands is because the drivers will be firing too low compared with your ears were they sitting right on the floor. Even with the stands taking the top of the cabinet up to about 31 inches, the tweeters are still low, which is where the tilt comes in.
     
    Chester0711 likes this.
  25. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    WOAH! :righton::edthumbs::pineapple::targettiphat:
     

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