Three years into vinyl, where to go from here.....

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Chester0711, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Maybe not, and it is not "Kosher" with the thinking of many audiophiles for 2-channel stereo.

    My thinking it that it is Kosher if you want deep powerful bass that most full range floorstanders will not give you. Most floorstanding speakers, will get you down somewhere in the 40-Hz. range.

    Two things, if you want to go down lower and if you want stronger, more authoritative bass, then a separate sub woofer or subwoofers are called for.

    I think that in making a speaker comparison, we should have a bit more information as to exactly what model Polk speakers your L100's are being compared to?

    As the owner of many Polk Audio speakers, I can say that the LSiM series are truly "flagship" speakers.

    When you are speaking of large 100-lb. towers, I hardly think that they can be referred to in the same sentence as "bamboo".

    I would speculate that the majority of speakers today are built as towers for a few reasons.

    To reduce the "footprint" so as to not take up as much floorspace. Since most fall short of the ceilings, I assume that "height" is not so much of an issue as floor space is.

    Most buyers today are using speakers more for HT applications, then just for stereo (I use mine for both). Since TV's today are far larger and located higher off of the floor than TV's were years ago, the towers sit comfortably along side of today's TV screens.

    The speakers closest to the TV screen are Polk LSiM707's and the outer pair of speakers are Zu Omen Definitions MKI.

    [​IMG]

    Many speakers that sat on the floor years ago, had tweeters which were not at optimum listening heights, tower designs address that issue.

    I think that big cabinets and large 12" and 15" driver's are important to move a lot of air. We just don't see many like these available new today.

    L100's don't come close to matching what speakers like these are capable of.

    [​IMG]

    In a less than "large" listening room, large towers will do the job that is necessary to pressurize good size rooms.

    But, if you want to take things a step farther, then a good sub or sub is something to be considered. Tower or monkey coffin size speakers can both equally benefit from a sub or subs. I use subs and Litejazz53 uses subs.

    Yes, they do very much "cut the mustard", at these sale prices, you are not going to find any speakers that can compare to their capabilities.

    They are not tiny. Home speakers today are not built like speakers were back on the 50's and the 60's.

    If I were going to have a pair of home speakers that had both an authoritative "punch" and excellent all around audio quality (audio quality being the keyword here), I would get myself a speakers like these.

    [​IMG]

    The L100's either new or classic, as you say, are not designed to be powerful floor standing speakers, which they are definitely not.

    When floor space is at a premium and you don't want to make sacrifices. :)

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying the Beauty of "Crystal Clear" Digital

    Great information and pics on the post Larry, all this company needs to do is point those blasters at an angle down a bit, and make sure their bracing is SOLID, oh my!! :laughup:

    I have got to wonder what kind of music does the owner play for morning breakfast, that has got be be a cool setting. I see these small bars in Japan with the Kenrick JBL speakers, what a relaxing way to make a living, how smooth is this!:agree:

     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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  3. theron d

    theron d Forum Resident

    Location:
    Baltimore MD
    want more punch change speakers to Klipsch rp-600m. Also add a sub.
     
  4. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    That is one of the modifications that I was going to do on my A7's.

    I was going to remove the screws that hold the bass if the 511B sectoral horn to the base mounting strip and substitute a long hinge strip.

    This way It could be adjusted to tilt down from the horizontal plane to better orientate it to someone who is sitting up close of a sofa.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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  5. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying the Beauty of "Crystal Clear" Digital

    This is solid advice, and with Klipsch you could use a low power tube amp if you are into tube amplification.
     
    theron d likes this.
  6. Helom

    Helom I'll take the monkey coffins

    Location:
    U.S.
    "Punch" has little to do with woofer and cabinet size. L100s in a 12x12' room?...maybe with addition of barf bags.
     
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  7. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I'm in the US, and I never liked subs either.
     
    enfield likes this.
  8. Fruff76

    Fruff76 L100 Classic - Fan Club President

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Where is that place?
     
  9. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    If you are referring to the coffeehouse type place, I have no idea.

    The first picture is my former audio room.
     
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  10. Fruff76

    Fruff76 L100 Classic - Fan Club President

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Yeah, I meant the coffee shop.
     
  11. Davey

    Davey very clever with maracas

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Reverse image search says ... Blue Bottle Cafe in North Oakland, CA. The person originally posting it said the sound was pretty bad, pretty much as you'd guess from the picture, but looks like it would be a hard place to set up with good sound.
     
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  12. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    So here is some advice from an old geezer who wishes he had followed some of this advice himself. You need to give your vinyl collection the attention it deserves. I am guessing you are a younger man who has a full time job. Before I retired my job was 60+ hours a week. It is hard to play much vinyl when you work 60+ hours during the week. I played vinyl mostly on the weekend. If this is your situation then 10 albums a weekend is a reasonable goal for albums played. That says it is going to take over three years to play through your collection. If your job is only 40 hours a week then maybe you can do 15 or 20 albums a week. Of course you are probably going to buy more vinyl, thus above all, you need to start playing your vinyl collection. You've spent money on it and the gear to play it, so spend time listening to it.

    Here are the three things you should consider getting in the order you should get them:

    1. You do not need to have a power conditioner (although they do help), but you absolutely need surge protection. You have spent reasonable money on gear, you do not want to see it all go up in smoke.

    2. You need a record cleaning machine (RCM) even if all your vinyl is new. Read this thread to understand why. The Finish Line for your Phono Cartridge- Stylus Wear by Mike Bodell

    3. The right subwoofer would help. When you get to this option PM me.
     
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  13. Guildx500

    Guildx500 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    That’s where I thought it was taken but it’s been a few years since I’ve been there.
     
    Davey likes this.
  14. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    So, I have been out listening to floorstanding speakers of all different type and price level. A few things I noticed (these are my ears, some of your ears are flawless, mine are not so take what I say with a pinch of salt.....

    1) I wanted to hear the tower version of the ELAC Debut 2.0 and I was able to do so along side the bookshelf version. I own the bookshelf so wanted to see what the difference was in tower vs. bookshelf.

    - My Takeaway was that there was minimal difference in the two, hooked up to the same amp playing same music selection. I was a little surprised and somewhat underwhelmed with the difference. A slight difference in the lows but almost less defined in the tower, which I didn't like. Soundstage/imaging was almost identical. The Elac route is off the table for towers, minimal difference and not a difference I liked.....

    2) Hooked up Definitive 8 inch three way (I think model BP-9020ST) to the same amp and it was night a day over the ELAC. Now the cost is basically double, so expected to some degree.

    - My takeaway - In comparison to the ELAC's it was as if somebody had a glass box over the ELAC's. When the definitive was hooked up it was like the glass box came off. Is this what the sound being "veiled" is referring too? At any rate, much more defined and clear and just plain louder....same amp, same volume, same song though. I will say, maybe a hair harsh?

    3) Next was Martin Logan 6 1/2 inch motion 40. Almost 50% higher price difference over the Definitive. Not as loud, a hair more refined, but boring and very bland. For almost $600 more for the pair, not worth the bump to me. Maybe not fair to compare to the 8 inch?

    4) Last was Bowers and Wilkins 600 series 6.5's. They were much better than all comers. Had the refined sound of the ML but the bump and punch of the Definitive without the rough edge. Unfortunately. out of my price range at least new.

    just my thoughts...still looking.
     
  15. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    Many of you have recommended a sub woofer addition to my setup and I was wondering, I have a sub woofer that used to belong to a fairly inexpensive set. It is sitting in the basement not being used. Would it be worth hooking up? any tips on setup with the current stuff I have, or is this a terrible match and don't bother?

    - Sub from Polk Audio RM6800 5.1 surround set

    Polk Audio RM6800
     
  16. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Why don't you hook it up and try it and find out?
     
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  17. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    Sure try it. why not. Remember this is a sub from a home theater system that is meant for crash and boom sounds. Also 65 watts for a sub is really low powered, so start with it in a corner to get the most out of it.
     
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  18. bever70

    bever70 It's all about the soundstage

    Location:
    Belgium
    Yep, try it but don't draw any conclusions towards real hifi subs (designed for 2 channel listening) from it !
     
  19. LakeMountain

    LakeMountain Member

    Location:
    Netherlands
    Great replies, and trying or adding new equipment can help. My approach would be to first insure that basics are right before spending serious money on upgrades. With basics I mean a clean power supply, eliminate unwanted vibrations and an optimum contact of the needle with the grooves.

    Now the problem with that is that you don’t know off hand if any of the basics are wrong in your set up!

    For example the power pollution varies strongly per location, perhaps even per room depending how many non-harmonic sources are affecting the power supply. Using a good power conditioner/ filter etc. might only show marginal improvements for one person, whilst for another the benefits are huge! That’s when you can get lively discussions on forums, whilst everyone is correct with his/her observations. Same goes for adding vibration control like platforms, dampening feet, clamps etc.

    So, power conditioning worked extremely well for me. I was even totally taken by surprise how well it worked. Suddenly a slightly dull record had punch - I mean that drums, bass etc were razor sharp- and I could now better understand the lyrics.

    Then again vibration control did next to nothing in my set up, whilst adjusting/playing with VTA improved almost all less good sounding LP’s to a level of “yes, it sounds magic”. BTW, I am using the Ringmat system with spacers (there are also good discussion threats on VTA).

    Bottom line for me was that I shelved my intention to buy new speakers. As long as I feel the magic of a recording, why should I?
     
  20. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I have several subs, including a couple from Polk. Although this is not apparently one of their higher end subs and I am not familiar with it, don't knock Polk subs in general as not being suitable for use in hi-fi applications.

    While they might not be the best examples of hi-fi subs, the better ones are not bad performing subs and excellent values for what they cost.
     
  21. Old Zorki II

    Old Zorki II Storm Watcher

    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    My speakers have build in subs and it is great, I can drive them with my pass labs 30 class A watts to any level of loudness I can bear.
    Some really, really good and very expensive Horn speakers ( Avantgarde ) also have build in powered subs.
    It is all about integration of them in overall speaker sound.
     
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  22. steviebee

    steviebee Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, England
    And tone controls.
    I haven't used/had tone controls in going on 40 years... :)
     
  23. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    I'm in the US and yet don't get the love for subs on 2.0 systems. But then I run my amps tone controls in bypass.
    Although I do like horns in large listening areas.
     
    enfield likes this.
  24. BrentB

    BrentB Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwestern US
    Record cleaning machine. Some good contact cleaner/enhancers. Setup/test record. Or anything else to help get the most out of what you have. Speaker stands? Spikes? Isolation platform? I could do this all day... And I have.
     
  25. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    My setup (as far as source) is good. I have an RCM. I use an alignment tool made by Pro-Ject for alignment and I love it. I also use a HiFi News test record after any adjustment. I can pass the first three bias tests without a lick of distortion. The final test is fairly distorted, but that is typically seen as a torture test and not one many can pass. All other tests pass.

    My system sounds quite good for the equipment I am using. Part of the hobby that is fun for me is trying new things to see what if any change they bring about. The greater the change and the better the change, at a low cost, the better the feeling.

    Look, I know if I go out and spend $8000 on speakers that I can get better sound. I want to know how to get better sound without spending that much or even close.

    I have learned a lot from this thread, thank you all!
     
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