Thriller SACD: lacking some bass

I'm comparing the SACD version with the 2001 edition and the one from "The Ultimate Collection", and I hate to say it but I think the latter sounds better. I mean, the bass is way much lower in the SACD, and although it does sound clearer, still a huge disapointment.

 

There was enough bass on the SACD to move my 10" woofers considerably. I found it a little too punchy when turned up loud. I'm at a loss but "The Ultimate Collection" uses digital compression to bring up any levels and hurts the ears when turned up loud.

 

This isn't the first time I've read complaints about the Thriller SACD lacking bass. I'm at a loss to explain how anyone could perceive it this way unless there's something going on with that person's system that is attenuating bass frequencies when playing back stereo SACDs (main speakers without sufficient LFE and no bass management applied?).

I looked at your profile, Big Thier, and would suggest trying the following test if possible: Play back both the stereo SACD and the Ultimate Collection using only your front main speakers (in other words, if your sub is typically active when playing stereo cds then change your settings so the sub is not active for that type of content). I haven't listened to the Ultimate Collection for a while and it may very well have a bass boost when compared to the SACD, but I have a hunch that the difference you're hearing is at least partly due to your subwoofer.

 

I actually thought the SACD had overpowering bass, more than I would prefer. I think having a proper setup for SACD is critical in this case, the format was designed with no LFE channel in mind.

 

If I recall correctly didn't Steve post years ago that this was a flat transfer from the master tape? If that is the case then it's honest.

I don't think it's lacking and bass when I play it. Very strong bass I recall.

 

Folks, please remember there is more than 1 Sony SACD mastering of Thriller. The US Sony SACD mastering which did not adhere to scarlet book standards and will produce varied/mixed results on different SACD transports, and the Japan Sony SACD which did conform to the scarlet book. IMHO the Japan Sony SACD mastering has superior sound quality. of course in this situation that could be gear dependent?

 

This is the first I've heard of this. Can you enlighten us as to how the mastering was done wrong on the US SACD such that some players play it back correctly but others do not? I didn't realize that different transports would handle SACDs differently.

 

The 2001 was awful IMO. I threw it away when I heard the SACD which I thought had great bass and as intended. The Ultimate Collection was similar to the 2001.

 

I don't possess the technical knowledge to answer most of your question.

Some info can be found in these threads:
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...acd-us-vs-jsacd-listening-impressions.205707/
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/michael-jackson-thriller.181136/
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/michael-jackson-thriller.181136/page-2#post-4382854

Then try a forum search, this should give you a good start:
https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=thriller sacd scarlet&start=&ie=utf-8&num=50&oe=utf-8&q=site:stevehoffman.tv

 

Whats the DR rating on the SACD from Japan?
Every remaster I have heard has been brickwalled. I only play the original CD or HDTRACKS.

 

Interesting. So the suggestion is that some playback equipment will be able to handle the excessive signal peaks and other equipment will clip, causing the perception of lack of bass (and perhaps other issues)?

 

My 1st pressing US vinyl edition blows the SACD out of the water, however on my system there's not much that difference tonally between the SACD and the vinyl. The bass certainly doesn't seem weak on the SACD (which is the US one).

 

My Japanese SACD sounds damn fine.

 

The SACD (US) has better resolution but overall, nothing digital beats the original Japan 358P matrix CD in my opinion (it has plenty of bass).

 

I have the HDTracks, which I understand is same as the SACD. I agree that the low bass is lacking. The mid-bass has a nice snap from those 80's digital drums, but the music does not quite hit you in the chest like one would expect for a dance beat (on the title track). I will admit that played real loud, it almost gets there...

 

Except when the abbreviation also happens to be a word considered by a significant number of people to be derogatory.

 

One more thing to check is whether or not you are passing DSD or PCM via HDMI to the receiver. There was a large thread over at AVS Forums on this topic. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1429939/low-bass-output-when-listening-to-sacds-using-the-dsd-setting

I need to break out the SACD once my wife and newborn are out and check and will post my findings. I also have a West German pressing floating around.

 

Please check several posts in a different thread starting with this one...

 

The US SACD sounds stunning on my old Oppo.

 

The OP may have a point, actually...

Here are the spectrum graphs & deltas of track 06 Billie Jean taken from Thriller DSD download (stemmed from US SACD master), original CD (de-emphasized) & 2001 CD (all at equal perceived loudness):

- Spectrum graphs/deltas:


- Spectrum deltas (close-up):


Looks like ~2...3 dB more in 40-120 Hz range on 2001 CD compared to SACD/CD...

 

^^^ My apologies, the original CD version I used in my previous comparison actually was a European pressing of Thriller (not pre-emphasized). I finally managed to get a hold of a Japanese pressing (EPIC/SONY 35 8P-11; CD pre-emphasis) & here is the what its de-emphasised Billie Jean looks like compared to DSD track (at equal perceived loudness, with DC offset removed; frequency range 20...20000Hz):

- Spectrum graphs & delta:


- Spectrum delta (closeup):


Some serious lower bass (between 20-80Hz) boost on Japanese CD of Thriller, indeed... BTW, DSD audio has inverted polarity compared to all CD versions of Thriller I checked.

 

In a recent shoot-out with the SACD and 35-8P, I found the latter to be a more pleasant listen all around.

 

Reverse polarity on SACD (or CD, FTM) & retry... IIRC, Thriller SACD/DSD download are allegedly flat-transferred from analogue master tapes.

 

The SACD does have the best fidelity, but to me the Japanese CD has a warmer sound, and I prefer that.