As far as Technics goes they did originally invent their motors. When they came back a few years ago they completely redesigned the motors.
Quite a number of us could buy motors from a supplier (and maybe speed controllers). Have a machine shop build platters and bearings, and a woodworker build us plinths, buy tonearms from a supplier like Rega, from our own turntable designs. Many small manufacturers got their start that way, including no less than Ariston and Linn. Remember, building your own designed from scratch DD turntable is not that doable on a small scale or even medium scale. You'd at least have to buy your motor and electronics from someone like Hanpin. Or you'd need resources in terms of money, engineering and design effort up there with Panasonic's investment. Note today even Thorens new owners, Denon, Onkyo, and their ilk can't afford to do this in recent years. They had to outsource their DD motors. That speaks volumes. Matsushita/Panasonic/National in 1970, invested $10,000,000 in improving vinyl recording and replay. I suspect even they couldn't afford today to commit this level of financial investment adjusted for inflation.
This photo shows the power transformer, the metal box with the E printed on it, which is screwed to the same chassis as the bearing, motor, platter and tonearm.
Did a quick Google, and it was a fellow at "Matsushita (now Panasonic)" apparently (Shuichi Obata). The first deck was 1969.......
Technics first perfected them, followed by JVC/Victor, Denon, and Sony. The latter three shared technology.
I own both an SL-1200G and SL-1200M7L - you’re right in the case of the 1200G. It’s so solid like a block of granite, there’s no play in any part and everything runs buttery smooth. Like a mechanical precision lab instrument. However, the same can’t be said for the M7L… it definitely feels more like a lifestyle product, tonearm lift isn’t dampened enough to make the tonearm go down with a linear speed. A bit plasticy to the touch at some parts. One 1200G can get you 4 of the 1200M7L though… so it’s also reflected in the price that one 1200 is a far cry from another 1200.
That’s an MK6. Those aren’t in production anymore for over 10 years and the current designs are vastly different; especially that of the 1200G. cast aluminum. The principles of these coreless axial motors exist for a few decades, but this specific motor is specifically designed for this turntable. It’s a proprietary component.
Dual actually had the first one I believe (the 701?). Regardless I was just pointing out that Panasonic designed and built their own -not that they did it first.
cool, but i dont want to start a debate, esp. with you, about mobile apps again. so it didnt happen i dont care.
Ah okay. yeah... if it's measured with a mobile app it's of little use to me. It just surprised me, since the Thorens TD125MKI and MKII are both specified at 0.08% w/f wtd.
it was exactly 0,08 w&f with technics, and around 0,012 with the belt driven thorens. i can repeat those results. I was always a big fan of DD, i am now a believer of belt drives and will prob. sell my technics. The questions is, what measurement WILL be of use to you?
Just get the right tools for the job. Those mobile apps are just fun for a rough indication of speed, you know... to quickly check an old turntable you come across at a garage sale... but it's nothing more than that. A nicely flat and well centered record with a 3.15kHz test tone playing in to something like a serviced Philips PM6307. In fact, that's a device I would really like to buy, but they don't come up for sale that often.
The Dual CS-701 was the first turntable to use a coreless (slotless) motor, I think that was in 1973, but they weren't the first to make a direct drive table. The EDS1000 motor was developed with Pabst, and the table was advertised (I think truthfully) as the quietest turntable at that time, due to the motor and tonearm, along with other vibration and interference reducing measures. It took the Japanese a few years to engineer their own coreless motors (I think Kenwood had to redesign the motor in the L-07D because they copied the Dual/Pabst motor a little too closely), and not all of them did, but the Dual 701 and 721 were pretty significant milestones...
I'm only (vaguely) familiar with the GR, G and 1000R and not lower in the range. I am more familiar with the 1200 Mk*, having around eight pass through my hands (after a good listen) from a couple of shops I worked either side of 1990. From my brief listening, the GR is a step up from the original SL-1200 Mk* and the G definitely an improvement over the GR. I've never really seen a photograph do justice Price / performance / value is solely down to the individual, but the one thing no-one has ever demonstrated to me, is a better cartridge in a GR, musically outperforming a good, but cheaper, say AT VM95ML (or Shibata) in the G. A couple of friends have the SL-1200G with the Audio Technica VM95ML and it really is an excellent turntable. A friend with a Rega Planar 6, also with the VM95ML is delighted too!
Isn't this motor still sought after these days (I was going to say still manufactured, but my guess is probably not)?
Yes, quite a few have made DIY tables with it, or used it in other tables. I actually had one for a while and was thinking along those lines, but decided I have enough projects and moved it on to someone with a little more ambition than I can muster these days The EDS1000 in the 701 was the higher torque version since it had the heavier platter. The subsequent EDS1000-2 was a very similar design but a lower torque for the lighter platter in the 721.
I've owned the 1200G for about 5 years now and the M7L (which is a white colored MK7) for a few weeks; I've owned MK2s, M5Gs and an MK4 (HiFi version of the MK2) in the past. I've taken those legacy 1200s apart and repaired a few of them. IME, the 1200G is significantly better than the legacy 1200s, but the legacy 1200s are better than the M7L, in terms of build quality. Yeah the cartridge makes 50% - if not more - of the sound coming from the turntable. That's why in a listening test, turntables should always be compared with the same cartridge and phono preamp installed. Always try to change only 1 variable at a time when doing comparisons - especially these kind of comparisons. Well, the VM95ML is a surprisingly good cartridge, better than you'd expect at a first glance!
So the Technics didn’t even come close to meeting spec and the Thorens pulled off something that’s practically impossible for it to do. When the measurements don’t make sense the next step is to validate them.
That's a 1200 from over 12 years ago - those aren't made anymore since october 2010. Nowadays the PSU is on the other side and it's a switching one without big transformer: Only the motor is on the top side: ...and it's neatly covered by a metal plate to prevent noise coming out:
