Topping D50 vs Schiit Modi Multibit vs Topping D30 vs SMSL M8A DAC

Guess that means you like loads of extra distortion that isn't part of the original recording.

 

Sure, that could be it. But then again we all perceive sounds differently to varying degrees depending on our range of hearing.
Also my ears, even though I used double hearing protection, sustained hearing loss from being on flight decks during launch and recoveries and working around 400 Hz transformers in radar repair workcenters. That might also be why I prefer D'Addario EXP17 strings on my HD28E Retro although Martin intended their MSP7200 strings. I don't know... different strokes for different folks. Besides life would be so fraking boring if we all liked the same thing.

 

The Schiit multibits do help average and good recordings. It's actually the good recordings where the effect is most noticeable and most obviously an improvement. With average recordings the effect can be there, but will be subtle.

This effect is in imaging. The ability for sounds to be placed in 3D within the soundstage. The ability for the soundstage to have some additional depth, imaging to have some additional layering, for the center of the imaging to fill in. Things like that. For me the things I like about the multibits is primarily about imaging. If your speaker setup or headphone setup does not present imaging well then you are not going to hear what I'm hearing with the multibits. If you're not hearing it with your system then choose a different DAC cause the multibit path is not going to take you to its pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Good imaging with speakers depends on careful setup of the speakers, room treatments, and careful selection of associated gear. And requires that you sit in the sweet spot when listening. If you want to experiment you can use the Modi multibit to help you adjust your speakers. Play with speaker positioning to try to get a more 3D and coherent left, right, center, and depth. The Modi multibit will let you know when you achieve that. Once you find that setup the other DACs will also do better soundstaging.

 

Why? Because everything is conected to a Pioneer AVR? It's an SC-LX76, the second of the top of the range (the SC-LX86 was the top of the range in 2012,then came the SC-LX76, both belonged to the Elite range in the US) from 2012, it's a 9.1 receiver that allows for a 5.1 configuration bi-amping the three front channels, it's actually what I call "active biwiring" as signal going to the bi-amped speakers is not filtered, it just uses two of the AVR power amps to feed one speaker of the three front channels, so plenty of power reserve and reduced distorsion because of more power than needed.
Power from the Pioneer SC-LX76 goes to a pair of B&W 601's and a CC5 center channel.
I always listen to music with the "Pure Direct" on that bypasses all digital processing, no room correction,no bass management and analogue volume control.
Believe me, either with the Topping D50+Yaqin SD-CD3 or an updated Goldring GR.1 TT (aluminium subplatter, white silicone belt, 2 Kg. glass platter) with an EAR 834P "clone" tube Phono preamp, the Pioneer SC-LX76 can really make music engaging.

 

I haven't reached the level of sweet spots, layering, imaging and all such deep audiophile lore - I suppose my set-up is too basic for such intricacies, but there's definitely some magic dust in that tiny Modi Multibit DAC.

Today I have been listening to the replacement discs I got for my Woodstock boxset and at some moment, during Keef Hartley Band's performance, I decided to switch to Cambridge Audio DacMagic, just to check how it'd sound and I quickly forgot about that, probably because at first it sounded more or less the same. So I finished that set, went through Janis Joplin's disc and thought to myself that it hadn't charmed me like before.

Then I spun Grateful Dead's at the Fillmore East from 1970 (Dave's Picks 30) and felt again there was something tiring about it. At first I assumed that I had got simply tired of music for today, but the next moment I suddenly realized that I had changed the DAC! So I switched it back to Modi and after awhile I was... enchanted by music again, even though I hadn't noticed any substantial change in sound while switching!

I really do not know what Schiit engineers are doing, but it (more than often) works. And although I can understand the measurement-focused reviewers getting mad at the consumers getting enamoured of the demonstrably underperforming piece of hardware, I cannot help but succumb to the Schiit cult. And all that without hearing what you're hearing. So hell no, I am not going to choose a different DAC (unless it is a Schiit upgrade)!

 

You're hearing some of the things that I lump together as "multibit magic". You don't need to notice the imaging aspects to be able to hear the other things in multibit magic. But those other things can be subtle and difficult to pick out in quick AB comparisons. You need to listen for a bit and then it will come through. What you heard with the Grateful Dead is something I've sometimes described as PRaT. Yes, digital can have PRaT. DACs with PRaT get you groovin and more enchanted by the music.

 

Confirmation bias works both ways btw. Someone, who believes that he should not be hearing any differences between two DACs that measured the same, might not hear them, even if there are in fact audible differences.

Some of those people are so “talented”, that they compress the hell out of music’s dynamic range to the point of clipping. But the result sounds more clear on a tiny Bluetooth speakers that most consumers use.

Yep, everyone should be listening to music in anecoic chambers, since any living room has a sound signature and adds terrible amounts of distortion, 10-100x higher comparing to any DAC.

Definitely. Now you don’t have to learn how to listen critically to compare gear, there is no need to try different components at your home or read reviews. Just get something that has better measurements. So many people now feel happy and relieved ))

 

This review of a Border Patrol DAC in Stereophile is a great example of two different camps in the audiophile world. In brief: BP performed poorly in measurements, which showed it distorts audio signal. The reviewer, who strongly opposes any non-transparent sounding DACs, didn’t like the BP, but all his audiophile friends whom he invited to compare the BP to his Benchmark DAC preferred the Border Patrol in blind test!

 

Absolutely, but the logical assumption is that if two objects of the same type measure the same, they are in fact, the same. If you would like to prove that two DACs that measure the same sound different - prove it in a blind test. We both know it has been tried more than once and we both know what the results were. If you don't - search.

I said that they make it sound the exactly the way they want it to and that they consider appropriate to their music. Now, if you are claiming that compression has been applied by mistake by someone who has no idea what he's doing, fine. But otherwise, it's like "improving" the colours of a painting to your personal liking ))

 

I’ve proven it to myself in a blind test more than once.

Depending on who conducted and participated in those tests the results were very different ))

Happens all the time in modern recordings, unfortunately.

 

Whenever I come across a discussion on "digital fatigue" Border Patrol DAC is brought up as frequently as Schiit Multibit DACs, albeit each manufacturer seems to have a different approach to (distorting/shaping) the sound.

I am also noticing that the preference for measurement-proven hardware goes frequently hand-in-hand with the conviction of the constant progress in the hifi domain:

BorderPatrol DAC SE

 

Pretty much agree with this. I found a black D50S -- open box but otherwise new -- on EBay for $192 so I bought it. The "S" model has Bluetooth 5.0 and a remote, plus if I understand correctly a few electronics mods as compared to the D50. Seems to work fine and is very, very clear. I run it through a tube preamp which seems to put some air under the wings of digital files.

 

I apologize for off-topic but guys, maybe you can help, I am looking for a dac to play files from computer that will match

1) my system (here: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/members/dof.53153/#info) and

2) my musical preferences which are mainly heavy metal, like Iron Maiden, and blues rock, like Eric Clapton.

In ideal world this dac should be detailed, crisp, rich, full, not thin, harsh or sharp, rather balanced.

Budget: $100-150.

Remember my system, its limits, don't wanna buy some expensive dac, that will be cut by the lower quality of the system, so it must fit.

What I have here in Poland? Well some SMSL's, like Sanskrit 10th MKII, some Toppings... like Topping E30, Topping D30.

Will it run under Windows XP?

Some demos from youtube:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfvubyPAWwA

My only experience with external dac is Behringer UCA202 (USB DAC) that I use to play my files.

 

I can recommend the SMSL Sanskrit 10th. I bought it in order to get volume control in my bedroom system where I use a vintage Luxman integrated amp from the mid-70's. I have my Apple TV 4k, Panasonic UHD, and Onkyo CD players connected and am quite satisfied.

In my main system where I'm looking for more, I have the Schiit Bifrost 2, and with my desktop system the Topping D50S. I bought the Topping D50S for just $185 via Drop.com. The D50 S is a bit better than the Sanskrit 10th, and the Bifrost 2 is a bit better than the D50S, but the gulf between the cheapest and most expensive of these three is not huge while the $$ is.

 

big thanks