And really, that the biggest difference between modern and vintage speakers. They stay clean at higher volume. Just like the difference between sports cars from the 60’s and now. Today a high end sports car goes faster and has better control at speed. If you never drive above 70mph, a 1965 mustang is just as good as new one. Get much over 100mph and the differences become massive. Wind it up to 130 and the 1965 will explode. Same with most vintage speakers, you aren’t going to get much past 85db before things start to get fuzzy. You can find some Klipsch, Altec and to a lesser external JBL’s that will sound ok if you push them with very, very good amps but what’s happening with a Sonus Fabre, Wilson’s, or many other modern high end speakers is just in another league. and for good reason, it’s not like turntables in the 1960’s and 70’s had a black background nor did the amps and pre amps. You could only turn that stuff up so much before it started to sound worse. Modern reference equipment is a much different situation.
Over the summer I bought a Christmas album (vinyl) by the (gasp) Living Strings on the Camden label. I just played it yesterday for the first time. Sensational recording and engineering. As I played it and was enjoying the sounds from my Bowers & Wilkins front speakers, I began to realize my now over 40 year old JVC speakers in the back were just as incredible and gave me equally delicious sounds.
I added Fostex tweeter with 1.5 uf (13 k hz cutoff) side by side with horn tweeter using existing network.
Vintage speakers were used for large space like theatre. Thus they are designed to play loud. Even if I play Altec Vott at loud volume, it shows no strain at all.
Not all vintage speakers are a7’s, in fact, they are the exception not the rule. Most vintage speakers were not designed or used in a theatre space, that’s just absurd. Do you think more people had voice of the theatre speakers in their living room or Fisher, or AR, or JBL, or Advent and if we’re talking Altec, Santana’s would be much more on point for what vintage speakers were and are.
Ayon Spitfire 30 watts will be enough to drive A7. You can enjoy A7 withough any supertweeter. It still sounds good.
Fisher and AR speakers are just old ones. Real vintage speakers are those used in theater from 1930-1960.
I guess it’s all down to synergy among components. There are $20K speakers that sound unreal with low powered tubes and there are $20k speakers that don’t open up until they see 200 watts. There’s no hard and fast rule. From where I’m sitting my 80 watt audio research tube amp makes my olympicas tickle my ear holes so I am still not clear why you have a hard and fast rule about not driving SF speakers with tubes…
Are you high? That’s the most absurd thing I’ve ever read in this forum and that includes that guy that started a thread about dryer sheets. So basically only the speakers you own are vintage? Anything over 30 years old is vintage, not new. Used in a theatre means it’s vintage and commercial. There are many, many great speakers that are vintage and designed for use in home. Ar3a’s are not just old speakers, they are very good. Altec model 19’s, Stonehenge with 604 drivers are as good or better than any speakers you can find if you’re looking for efficient speakers. I can promise you there are many old speakers that were used in theaters and as PA’s that sound like straight garbage. A7’s are the exception, not the rule.
Well, you have amazing speakers and a fantastic amp. Most tube amps and the ones being discussed for vintage speakers aren’t 80 watts. But still, if you had two of those amps set up for mono nock I bet you’d like it twice as much.
I don't think there is anything close to a definition of "vintage" speakers, and it doesn't make sense to argue about which qualifies and which don't; and that also goes with what qualifies as home vs. theater speakers. While it may be the case that many current speakers can be played louder than the 1960-70 bookshelf speakers, that is something I personally place a low priority; I care more about how speakers sound playing at low or moderate volume. Yes, by analogy, modern super cars can hit 240 mph, but, I don't see myself driving one nearly that fast even if I owned one of them. I've heard quite a few modern builds of custom speakers utilizing vintage drivers (or a mix of vintage and new or reproductions of vintage drivers) and many of these are among the best systems I've heard. Most of them, by the way, can be played quite loudly without distorting, but, more importantly, they sound great even when being played at very low volume. I think that a lot is lost with most modern speakers because they are usually coupled to high-powered amps that sound lifeless and unengaging when played at sane volume levels.
No, words have meanings and vintage literally means “of age”. Vintage is not a synonym of “good”. There is no listening test that qualifies a speaker as vintage. it certainly doesn’t mean PA speakers from the 1930’s -60’s. And don’t lose the point about performance be diminished by your preference for volume. People that design speakers don’t do so in a vacuum, the amps that are common/available and the sources being used makes a big difference and all of those things were very different 40 years ago. The silence of digital, the precision of an analog chain, the availability of massive am points of power and the use with video sources have fundamentally changed how speakers are designed and perform. I would also say that computers, 50 years of the scientific method and advanced materials have impacted how new speakers sound. Pointing out the ability to stay clean at 100db or more is just a clear example most people can understand. but really, this thread isn’t about “vintage speakers”, it’s just a guy trying to put his A7’s over as being better than anything you can buy new. And I don’t disagree with that. Provided you live in a warehouse and like the look is of something that could have been designed by the Chinese post office in the 1960’s, they are a fine choice.
haha Wow. my takeaway is the OP is justifiably amazed a vintage speaker captures the essence of musicality as well as it does. At the price he paid especially- to go up against much newer and far more costly speakers and still present well is reason for certain amount of incredulous excitement. I am constantly disappointed by the sound coming from new speakers. With cost, design and size constraints they are by my estimation both better and worse than many vintage speakers I have heard. My grandmothers old Packard Bell system blows a lot of new speaker/ amps out of the water for sheer dance ability if nothing else. I’ve tried like hell to come closer to the sound I heard as a child from my Dads system. Vintage even in the 60’s, incredible and nothing I’ve heard in the last few decades even comes close. My takeaway is in many cases the ‘Old Timers’ really had more a handle on this sort of thing than we give them due credit for. even if it does look a little like something designed by USPS.
Oh, I’m a big fan of vintage speakers and amps. I’ve got three pair set up in different rooms that are 30-40 years old that I wouldn’t part with, have had a few others and I have a list of many more that I’d bring home when the opportunity presents itself. I’m into it. I also get why new 10-20k speakers are a good idea and what they do differently. I can also report that many times when A7’s come up on CL you will read “wife says they have to go” or “bring a truck and check with your wife first, I will not accept returns”. They were in fact designed not to be seen and heard in a room that holds hundreds of people. If you can’t put ten feet between them and sit ten feet away from them, I can promise there are many other Altec speakers that will sound better.
I own an original pair of the Large Advent Loudspeaker in walnut cabinets that are stamped Dec 1973 and I think they sound fantastic. I haven't compared them to any modern speakers, but I haven't felt the need to upgrade them either.
It would take a good bit of money to do better. Those Advents are easy to listen to for a long period of time. Prices have gone up but those have been the best for them money for a long time on the used market. They sold a ton of them back in the day.
Although I got a bargain at Altec A7, I had ended up spending around 6k$ to get Cayin 300b pp (20 watts) and tube rolling. This amp has a good potential with no hum but sounds coarse with stock tubes. But after tube rolling it sounds and warm and relaxed.
Years ago I had a Cayin (SPARK) 300 B SET integrated that was an excellent performer. I wonder the effect created by the Lansche speakers on the sound where you are seated. They appear rather substantially in the way of the Altec.
Altec A7 is supposed to be used in theater or chuch where there are many pillars in the middle. Lanshce does not seem to affect the sound of Altec since it has rather slim footprint.
Altec Lansing’s Voice of the Theatre Speakers - What You Need to Know A design by John Hilliard, Altec Lansing Voice of the Theatre systems originally targeted movie theaters. The entire series was gradually expanded for use in general sound reinforcement and later converted in extreme high-end audio segments for hi-fi home use. Dorsey knows cinema sound inside... audioxpress.com After reading the above article, I had decided to go for active bi amplification without using internal network. I use Lyngdorf 2170 which has speaker output, analog output and digital output with highpass or lowpass options. I set the highpass at 500hz on digital output and going through my dac and integrated amp to drive treble horn. Initially, I had tried to use speaker output of Lyngdorf 2170 with lowpass at 500hz to drive bass unit of Altec A7. But bass sound is lagging behind the sound from treble horn. Thus I had used analog output with lowpass at 500hz to Crown XLS 2502 which drive bass unit of Altec A7. But bass sound is still lagging behind the sound from treble horn. Then I had used analog output with lowpass at 500hz to Rogue Cronus Magnum II which drive bass unit of Altec A7. Now it is working fine with treble horn. Many people may think that SS amp sounds faster than tube amp but it is on the contrary. I had used Telefuken ECC 83 and Amperex ECC 82 in Rogue, but after replacing Amperex with GE 12bh7a tubes, Rogue sound more robust on bass. After getting rid of internal network, Altec A7 sounds more transparent with clean details. Since I am happy with sound out of Altec A7 after active bi amping, I retired Lansche 4.1 to attic on the third floor. Please note that I had been using Lansche 4.1 since 2006 after buying it new at 50k$. P. S. ticking noise is from my chair wihile I reord the music sitting in the sofa.
ADS L-810s purchased in 1979. Still sound clear and strong all these years later. Mostly classical, some classic jazz. Why would I want anything else?
It also plays classical music well. I also had set room correction using Lyngdorf 2170. But with classical music I turned off room correction. With room correction, the soundstage got deeper but with slight harshness. Thus I use room correction. for Jazz and pop music only.
