Not quite vintage and not to the grand scale of vintage Altec but this thread inspired me to break out the JBL 3678 and power them with the mighty Topping TP22. Amazing what 12.8 watts @8 ohms can do!
Curious, how do they sound next to the Cornwall's? The JBL's are very much like Altec’s. Being that Cornwall's were of similar size and design, these would make a nice comparison.
Amazingly similar, blind I don't think I could tell them apart. The Klipsch Cornwall II go deeper in the bass and have more treble sparkle but also more easily fall into sibilance recording dependent. The JBL 3678 are more rolled off in the extremes not becoming as sibilant (recording dependant) but having less sparkle. Both are very efficient with the edge going to the Klipsch. The JBL will play louder and more coherently when asked. Since adding the SVS sub woofer the bass extension question has become moot. I would describe the JBL as having a smoother top end, spoken word or unaccompanied singing (A cappella) is spooky realistic. In everyday use the Klipsch have a slight edge but I could live with the JBL without complaint.
After hearing some microphonic noise, I replaced Russian 6n9s with Sylvania 6c8g (6sl7 variant). Now Eva Cassidy's voice sound much cleaner. This is the power of tube rolling. You can taylor the sound with replacement of tubes.
That is something that you probably wouldn't even notice if you were using a tube amp with conventional direct radiator speaker designs. With horns, it becomes ever so apparent. By using different tubes and different tube amps, you can completely change the sound signature of the speakers the same way you can change your looks by changing your clothes.
Interesting, because they have do much in common with their design. I figured that they would be real close. Yes, the JBL's like the Altec’s tend to be more rolled off at the extremes, which you would expect of a two way vs. the three way design of the Klipsch. But, the JBL's like Altec’s are optimized for two things... This is illustrated by Thomas playing Eva Cassidy through the Altec’s. People just wouldn't be able to comprehend just how really spooky this is. I use the same term myself with vocals on my Altec A7’s. Someone would have to be in the room and experience it for themselves as there is nothing that it can be compared to. On top of just tube amps, throw a little class "A" their way... This is their other main attribute, same as the Altec’s. In speakers, like most other things, there are tradeoffs. These were the two things that JBL and Altec do best that is all but untouchable. People can ask, "can't they do these things and play lower and higher"? The answer is that they cannot. Every aspect of their engineering was completely focused on them doing these key things to near perfection. BINGO! instead of compromising on changing the core focus of the speakers, you simply augment them with a subwoofer and presto, problem solved. In my case, I added super-tweeters. Now we take a speaker that audiophiles are critical of (for those reasons) and not really suitable for home audio use and modify them into something better than most home audio speakers. The great benefit is that if you want to host an outdoor event with a hundred or so of your closest friends, the JBL's and the Altec’s can handle that too, no problem. Now you really have speakers that can literally do everything.
In this case the comparison was made with the gear in my profile, amplification by Hypex Ncore 500 via Marantz which is not tubes or class A. Bruno Putzeys, Ncore designer stated in Sound and Vision May 2017: "I’ve heard several reports of valve aficionados ditching their glassware and switching to Ncore. All I can conclude from that is that those people clearly weren’t actively seeking the distortion of valves as many believe, but instead had a legitimate beef with certain sonic aspects common to most solid-state designs. That’s one thing I have to explain again and again to my fellow doubters: when audiophiles report a particular listening experience, that experience is real. Trust that. Just don’t trust the explanation they proffer."
I’m in the process of an Altec build…605b’s in Stonehenge style cabs….cabs have taken my builder 4 months (because of todays madness everywhere) looking forward to it… this thread reminds of something my uncle used to say…”just because it’s old doesn’t make it a classic, just because it’s new doesn’t make it better” high quality is high quality no matter when it was made…
I'm right with your uncle on this. Old or new, you have to have or develop an understanding of the product, both its strengths and limitations. You have to best understand the environment where it will be used. My take is that when dealing with vintage audio gear, there are usually modifications that need to be made for that gear to operate in a modern audio setting. The modifications and how they are executed make all the difference between superior results and quite a bit less.
I recomend you to try tube amp with your high efficiency speakers. It is fun to do tube rolling to taylor the sound.
I am back to Cayin 300b pp which give more nuanced sound while Line Magnetic 508 give slightly more lively and dynamic sound. Cayn 300b pp is fitted with Psavne Acme 300b, Sylvania 6f8g(6ns variant), Telefuken ECC83 and Amperex ECC82. It is also good experience going back between Telefuken ECC83, Amperex ECC83 and GE 12ax7 tubes. Telefuken ECC83 give most lively sound with shapr focus while Amperex ECC83 give more relaxed sound and GE is in the middle of two. I used to spend 500$ to 1k $ each month to buy vintage tubes. Now I had decided to stop shopping vintage tubes since I have more than enough to last my life. I have around 100 pairs of 6sn7 and variants, 20 pairs of 6sl7 and variants, 20 pairs of 12ax7 and variants, 30 pairs of 12au7 and variants , 20 pairs of vintage 805 power tubes. But I have only 3 tubes of WE 300b made in 1940's. If they are avaiilable in good condition at reasonable price, then I may stock more WE 300b.
I used a Line Magnetic LM211IA (EL34 15/32 watts) for several years. I always felt it was lacking in dynamics, transient response headroom and ultimately bass when listening to symphonic and operatic material. I find the Marantz 30 has great synergy with both the Klipsch and JBL.
LM 805 or 508 whether new or used will be much better with nice dynamics and control of bass than 211IA.
Thank you for the suggestion and under different circumstances I would jump back in to tubes, I'm now retired and still supporting a family (mine) . New amp adventures will be on hold for now. Still have one son in collage and two in grade school, other hobbies take time and resources. Perhaps I'll hit the lottery! But really very happy right now.
I just saw this an had to share... Crazy price for horn speakers. Are they that good? 1000円スタート Western Electric ウェスタンエ... - ヤフオク!
That is a field coil unit which could fetch sizable money if in good condition. The present price is around 40k$.
That is a nice speaker. It is not a field coil speaker—both the compression driver and the woofers have permanent magnets. The woofers are made by Jensen, and the midrange compression driver is the Western Electric 713b or 713a. The 713a has an aluminum diaphragm and a more extended top end than the 713b, which has a phenolic diaphragm. In a two-way system such as this, the extended top end of the 713a is a plus, but in a three-way system, I prefer the 713b because I think it has the best midrange of all the compression drivers I’ve heard. I use that driver with the Western Electric KS12025 horn in my system. The 713b is particularly hard to find in a matched pair—individual drivers offered for sale will vary in sound in a way that makes it hard to build a stereo pair even though good sounding single speakers can be made with each driver. That might explain why, a few years ago, single drivers often sold for about $5,000, but matched pairs from reliable sources cost something like $20,000 for a pair. I have no idea what these go for now. These drivers have not been successfully copied—even G.I.P. Laboratories has not been able to make a good copy even though they are terrific at doing Western Electric field coil driver clones.
Just plain Altec A7s playing Johnny Hodges “I got it bad, and that ain’t good” on my system. Perhaps not as extended at both extremes as “audiophile” speakers, but in person sounds more real, IMHO anyway.
I just spent several hours this evening with the JBL 3678 going from the Klipsch Cornwall II and back. The clear winner? Cornwall, perhaps I could tell the difference after all.
I owned a pair of Klipsch Forte speakers in the 1990’s and they couldn’t hold a candle to Altec's. Always sounded harsh no matter how much modelling clay I put on the horn exterior and inside cabinet corners, which of course lessened whatever bass they had. I gave them away n the end.
Two 18 inch Scaena subwooferes crossed at 56hz using internal passover of Crown Xls 2502 seems to work well. Altec a7 is driven active bi amping with Pap C1 active crossover. Treble horn is driven by Line Magnetic 508 and bass horn is driven by Crown Xls 2502. Fostex supertweeters are also added at 9 khz using 2.2 uf Mundorf oil capacitors.
From here that sounds clean clear punchy and lively! Well done! Have you found any trace of sibilance at all? Ssometimess Ssibilance rearSss it’ssself in Ssysstemsss
I tamed sibilance using Cardas 101 cable for Fostex supertweeter. Cardas 101 cable could be good choice if your system sounds bright. On the other hand, it could sound dull in neutral system.
