Vintage vs Modern speakers.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by thomaskong, Oct 23, 2021.

  1. Larry I

    Larry I Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Salectric,

    I found out a bit more about why Vu utilized the Fostex tweeter in his newest big dollar build. He carries speakers from Dolce Vita Audio and that company utilizes that Fostex tweeter; Vu liked the sound. Hence, the somewhat strange set of drivers and components--The woofers cost around $10,000 a pair if you can find them, the midrange drivers are around $30,000 a pair, the Audio Note caps are $2,000 and the tweeter is $90.

    Now that the caps are broken in, I heard the speaker at pretty close to completion. They where first being auditioned with a pair of fake Western Electric 124 amps (6L6 output tubes, Chicago transformers). I liked what I heard, but there was a slight "glare" or unnaturally forward and aggressive midrange presence which I thought might be cured by turning down the midrange driver control. However, that pretty much went away and the speaker sounded even better when the amps were replaced with real Western Electric 124s. I was somewhat surprised by the difference. One of the store's salesperson noted that that is what the Western Electric 171C output transformer brings to the table. That salesperson once told me that he planned to build his own clone of a 124 amp because of how great the ones at the store sounded. But, he put those plans on hold when he heard that same amp with the real Western Electric transformers; he will wait till he can afford those transformers.
     
  2. Salectric

    Salectric Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    @Larry I
    Thanks for the additional information.
     
  3. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    I bought used Scaena 3.2 on Jan 2000. But due to Covid break, i could not assemble main towers for 30 months.

    I appreciate Erik's help in assembly of it last Friday.

    During the time, I had been using two Scaena 18 inch subwoofers to augement either Lansche 4.1 or Altec A7.

    Now i am doing some comparison between Altec A7 and Scaena 3.2.


    Could you tell whether the folllowing musics are from Altec A7 or Scaena 3.2?

     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
  4. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
  5. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
  6. RWBadley

    RWBadley A Long Strange Trip

    Location:
    Reno NV USA
    Maybe. But if you used the same track to A/B it would be easier to discern what's going on...
    Hah! I hear the squaeeking again is that a cat? Or a bird or both?

    The first of Ella and Louis seemed to have more dynamic. The other two somewhat less so
     
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  7. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    Sofa squeak since I record while sitting in the sofa.

    Thanks for your opinion.
     
  8. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State


    One more song to tell whether the music is from Altec A7 or Scaena 3.2
     
  9. RWBadley

    RWBadley A Long Strange Trip

    Location:
    Reno NV USA
    From here that sure doesn't sound like the Altec
     
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  10. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    Ha Ha
     
  11. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    What do you think of the sound regardless whether it is Altec or Scaena.
     
  12. RWBadley

    RWBadley A Long Strange Trip

    Location:
    Reno NV USA
    The voice is more recessed than what I had heard from the Altec clips you had previous.

    Less dynamic.

    It seems less exciting. More compressed. Just my .02
     
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  13. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    You have keen ears.:)

    I will go into more detailes explanation later.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
  14. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    I


    I had used Cayin 300b pp (20watts) to find out whether 300b SET can be used.

    Cayin give more round sound with slightly less dynamics.

    With Line Magnetic 508(48 watts), it sounds more dynamic aplomb.
     
  15. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State



    This recording was on the sound using Cayin 300b pp.
     
  16. RWBadley

    RWBadley A Long Strange Trip

    Location:
    Reno NV USA
    I think it’s hard to judge the speaker sound when more than simply the speakers are changed it’s not like ‘A’ and ‘B’ with all else equal.
     
  17. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    Ha ha it is complicated.

    I will disclose all the secrets behind it tomorrow morning.
     
  18. RWBadley

    RWBadley A Long Strange Trip

    Location:
    Reno NV USA
    I’m thinking the amps needed for the Altec must need to be quite a different setup than the line array speakers. Even if they quote them at 93dB that may be optimistic.

    The Altec at 105 dB will behave quite differently.
     
  19. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    Bass horn is only sensitive at 99db or so.

    But treble horn is around 105db.
     
  20. jusbe

    jusbe Modern Melomaniac

    Location:
    Auckland, NZ.
    They still sound great. Had mine for ages and they replaced some Spendor BC1s I had running. The transmission line bass complements the driver array really well.
     
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  21. Oregon

    Oregon Active Member

    Location:
    USA
    Ran AR-11's forever after experimenting with JBL and Infinity. Discovered Vandersteen 2Ce Signature II's a few years ago, haven't looked back. The AR-11's now serve as part of a pair of base traps while the Infinity's are dedicated to the TV downstairs.
     
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  22. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    Scaena 3.2 has 12 4 inch midrange drivers which work like full range without any passive crossvoer.

    9 ribbon drivers are added with simple capacitor (6k hz cutoff).


    They use active crossover at 120 hz. Thus two 18 inch subwoofers covers bass while mail tower covers frequency abover.

    I had used two Scaena 18 inch subwoofers to augment subbass of Lansche 4.1 or Altec A7 for 30 months before assemvly of main tower last week.

    My impression of two 18 inch subwoofers is positive with fast and tight bass with deep extension.

    But somehow, two 18 inch subwoofers doesn not sound very weighty compared with Altec A7 bass horn.

    Altec A7 bass horn give authoritiva bass although it starts tapering off at 50 hz and no signal below 30 hz.

    When I added two 18 inch subwoofers to Altec A7 at 56hz using crossover of Crwon XLS 2502, they worked very nice.

    Thus I had connected main tower of Scaena 3.2 above 500hz to see what happen.

    They worked pretty nice as witnessed by Erik (Solypsa).

    It may sound crazy to mix and match 60 years old vintage driver with modern speaker.



    I had also tried 290 hz using Pap C1 active crossover.

    it also work very nice.

    Scaena 3.2 is one of the best speaker available in giving widest and deepes soundstage but also with clean mid range and treble using multiple drivers.


    With slim line source, soundstage extend beyond my window.

    Also I can easily pinpoint different instruments back and forth.


    I will be out of town for three weeks to spend time with my 30 months old grandchild.


    I will report more on August.
     
  23. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State


    This shows the strength of hybrid Scaena and Altec A7.

    The soundstage is wide and deep, almost mesmerizing.

    Using Altec A7 basshorn bass sounds powerful with jump effect.
     
  24. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State


    To coclude, I enjoy holographic 3 D stage made by Scaena.

    In addition, Altec A7 basshorn add efforless dynamics to the system.

    Also I have more headroom to drive main tower of Scaena with smal or medium power tube amp using either 290hz or 500 hz crossover instead of 120 hz.

    But it is easier to go back to Altec treble horn since I keep 500 hz crossover point.

    Thus I can have both nuance of vintage speaker and 3 D imaging of Scaena.

    I had listened to WE full horn system more than 50 times in Korea.

    Although they sounds very nice with nuanced details and effortless dynamics, they never throw 3 D holographic image provided by Scaena.
     
  25. thomaskong

    thomaskong Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Washington State
    arrived in Seoul, Korea yesterday and expect to see my 30 months old grandson coming from Toronto this afternoon.

    It is family reunion with 3 grownup children, their spouses, and one grandson.


    By the way I miss holographic soundstage from Scaena.

    It may give exaggerated soundstage wider and deeper than live concert, but it is fun.



    Using muliple drivers, its distortion is very low judged from above video.

    If you are buff for soundstage, you shall try out Scaena speaker.
     

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