SH Spotlight Vinyl vs. master tape?

Well, the TRUTH is, IMHO, a CD will bring you a lot closer to the sound of live music than an LP. That is the 'cold hard truth'. There is just no way vinyl, with it's rolled off frequencies, surface noise, speed variations and whatever other distortions are inherent to the format, can reach the s/n, frequency response, dynamic range and accuracy of CD, SACD, DVD-A or any other digital format, outside of lossy formats. So, I just cannot agree with you. I've had people hear me playing CD's and think it was me playing the piano or strumming my guitar. I've never had that happen while playing an LP. Although you may not think that you've done a 'psych job' on yourself, if you think that an LP sounds closer to a live performance than a CD, then I think, IMHO, that you have just grone accustomed to hearing things played back in a certain fashion and just don't like it as much if you hear it any other way. That's the thing about the human psychology, you don't neccessarily KNOW that you are becoming conditioned, you just wake up one day and are.

 

That's how I interpreted what you wrote.

It really is all in the thought process!

 

I second that emotion!

 

Smokey Robinson & the Miracles--1970!

Bob

 

It is mastering that everything starts from, but assuming proper mastering, it is my personal opinion that a CD will capture the true sound of that master much more accurately than an LP.

 

I hope you were just testing because you are three years off!

The year was 1967, and it charted into 1968! I was in kindergarden at the time.

 

Thank you.

 

GoldenBoy,

Playing devils advocate--Are you prepared to tell Steve and Kevin to "stop the lathe!"

I happen to believe that CDs, when properly mastered, sound wonderful, spectacular. Of course, I believe the same to be true about well mastered LPs and 12" singles.

Bob

 

Bob, i'm taking away your reel-to-reel until you pass the musical history test!

 

Grant,

I know...just being a smart ass. Kindergarten!...well I was driving a 63' Chevrolet Impala 396SS with a tube AM Radio...ah well!

Bob

 

I would tell them to stop making LP's, if it were just up to me, but obviously a large portion of the audiophile market, for whatever reason, insists on LP's, so it makes sense for them to continue making them. It's purely economics.

 

Well, we owned a '65 Impala up until 1969...

I can't tell you about the radio but I heard tons of good music on it, especially from 1968...

 

Grant,

Then you grew up with the fat analog sound of the AM Radio in that Impala. I bet you remember the sound of that radio. I wonder if the sound of that Radio serves as a reference point when you "remaster" songs from that era?

Bob

 

I was born before '75 and bought hundreds of LPs. However, when CDs hit the scene I was taken with the clarity and the sound quality that you could get with the new media. And no more pops & skips.

I bought hundreds of CDs almost imediately. But I have to say that after the first 3 years of compact digital audio there was a noticable difference in the quality of the CDs themselves. In the first days most of the Sony stuff was manufactured in Japan. The quality dropped when they started manufacturing in the U.S. I believe they weren't so interested in mastering them correctly any longer either once the masses started buying CD units in large quantities.

I haven't used a turntable since then but the more that I hear makes me wish that I'd never stopped buying them. The pops don't seem like such a bad thing anymore. A TT could be in my future...

Just my two cents....

 

'

Well, I do recall the boosted midrange...

That reference helps when I pick out the CD or mix of a song that sounds closest to what I recall. For an example, my family used to turn the treble down a bit, so the slightly recessed vocals on the Bill Inglot remix of the Grass Roots "Midnight Confessions" works perfectly.

Up until 1972 I grew up listening to a 1961 Motgomery Wards stereo console that used tubes. We always got a nice, fat tube sound from those Motown, Atlantic, Chess, and Stax singles. My sister used to slightly overbias the tubes to mellow out the sound a bit because 45s were often overmodulated, or over cut. Everything sounded fat and warm.

I like CDs but the stereo mixes of 60s Motownl always sound thin and cold with too much reverb.

 

Hi,

I think this is a fair question, Mr. Grant. I don't mean to offend you, but after reading your many responses on this continual debate, one should notice that you never ever answer this question. Here's why I would like to know your answer.....

My first cdp was a lame $250 Hitachi that made me think digital sucked. The cdp was harsh, bright, and very fatigueing. Then I scored a Rega Planet cdp and experienced digital in a much more mellow and laid-back environment that was almost warm. The only problem then was most of my cd's still sucked because of the lame mastering but at least I knew that my complaint was mostly mastering not digital.

Just Another View,
Jeffrey

 

Grant,

Thanks for sharing! I have always believed that historical memory of recordings as they sounded on circa vintage equipment affects our perception of "how" they should sound today. I grew up on the more "fat" tube sound of car and home AM Radios and the "HiFi" in the living room (later component stereo). Those 50's and 60's Mono and Stereo recordings had a distinct sound on that vintage equipment.

Bob

 

"It is mastering that everything starts from, but assuming proper mastering, it is my personal opinion that a CD will capture the true sound of that master much more accurately than an LP."

Isn't it the musical performance that everything stems from? So if a turntable just happens make you tap your toes tap more than the CD player, which is better? Do you blame it on 'euphoric distortion' or just get on and enjoy the performance? IMO Its the music not medium that counts. I rarely sit in front of a great system and think 'Mmmm, sounds like the master tape', that seems bizarre to me - I think 'Is this great music or not', jsut like I would at a live concert. In my experience, a good turntable delivers the goods more often than a good CD player when using these criteria.

 

Y'know - I have somedays where everything I play, both digital and analog, doesn't sound good. On those days I noticed that a couple of quick "shots" seems to improve my (biological) system and it's ability to derive emotional response from the music, altering the perception of the sonics until the root of the sound becomes more paramount than the equipment used to reproduce it. On those occasions, I often find that audience recordings of Rolling Stones concerts from 1969 may have a greater emotional impact than the richest release from DCC. This is not always possible when electronic and biological equipment is functioning optionally - and I notice that the alcohol modification often results in unecessary adjustments in the tonality and amplitude of the equipment (mostly more bass and volume). It is an option that I personelly reccommend every now and then - especially if you are having difficulty grasping the purpose of the music in question.

ER,....what were we talking about?

 

Al,

Nothing like enjoying music with a great Martini or glass of wine or whatever suits your taste...I agree...

In fact, I will get to do that soon.

Bob

 

Grant
That was an interesting and understandable interpretation of what I said. When I said I don't think my vinyl playback system is making selective colorations I meant that if the perception of more information comming from the LP was the result of a euphonic coloration it would be consistant on all records and the same in its sonic nature.That is not what i am hearing. The nature of the information I hear on LPs but not CDs of the same recordings varies in nature. For this to happen through euphonic colorations my system would have to be making decisions about which colorations it has to add to make it sound like there is more information there and change the nature of that increase in information from disc to disc. Infact LPs sound far more different to each other than CDs do in my experience. Usually sameness is the result of a coloration and not visa versa. If it were just a euphonic coloration creating this illusion it would be the same on every LP CD comparison. It isn't
Goldenboy
Many have made the same claim you have. They see no way that an LP can sound like live music than a CD. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anyone who thinks this is welcome to come over with their CD player and their favorite CDs for a comparison. Many have come over and they all walk out in amazement (everyone who has taken this challange has come away agreeing that the LPs were substantially superior sounding). No CD palyer has ever come close to sounding as beautiful or lifelike as my turntable here in my home.

 

My first CD player was a second generation Radio Shack (Sanyo). At the time I thought it was the CDs and my low powered amp that caused the thin, overly bright, and fatiguing sound. Well, it WAS the CDs and my 40-watt Nikko reciever! I just didn't realize that the biggest culprit was the lousy CD player! Being in college, the best I could step up to was a better amp and a Sony changer in the early 90s. BIG improvement! All of a sudden, everything got mellower and had depth. It was my first taste of less compressed music. Oh, some CDs improved, some just got worse. Since then I had gotten into interconnects. BIG sound improvement once I found the most nuetral ones I could afford-MIT.

My LP playback? A 1981 JVC DD that still works beautifully today. The only weak link is that the Grado, while it sounds fantastic, produces hum. I tried everything to get rid of it but nothing works. I am looking for a different one that I can afford that sounds as good.

You can flame me if you want but not everyone has that disposable income to freely spend on audio gear.

 

My dad had a top of the line mid 60s Sony component system with the 7' reel to reel. He used to play almost nothing but his Impressions LPs and Marvin Gaye singles on it, and I don't remember the sound of it. I just remember that Wards console.

I heard lots of stereo LPs too, but those mixes usually just don't do it for me, except when it's Aretha Franklin, for some reason.

 

Hi Grant,

Thanks for the open & honest response!

Flaming you is not my purpose, at all. My point is what I admitted about my own system, with lower dollar equipment you do not hear all that a particular medium can avail. Thus, it is fair to say that you may not have heard all that analog has to offer.

Just Another View,
Jeffrey