Wanted: a good DAC for solo piano music

Hi all,
I realise this is a bit of a niche and difficult one, but
I have had the short but incredible experience of hearing pianos sound just rite in my system with a goldring g900igc cartridge who's stylus is basicly on the fritz and needs replacing. This has lead me to wonder, can pianos sound great through a dac and if so which one? my non-oversampling dac makes them sound a little distant/dreamlike, while my hrt music streamer sounds hard, harsh and digital...
caviats: it needs to be plug and play. I am totally blind and annoyingly rune and jriver are both totally inaccesseable to a screan reader, not to mention I have a few thousand cds and over 8000 redbook and high-res classical titles on my hard drive. I think I have over 2000 solo piano albums alone and while yes that goldring cartridge is being retipped I now have the erge to get my digital sounding just rite with pianos.
It needs usb capeability.
and I do like my starting point dac3 for orchestras, that would take some beating in that department...
If I manage to achieve this it will convert my wife into being something of an audiophile her words not mine!
I think £1000 budget new or used, maybe more maybe less...

 

Look for a used Naim DAC V1 or a used North Star Design Incanto or the Schiit Audio Yggdrasil or the Benchmark DAC3. Each of these DACs produces gorgeous acoustic instrument timbres, extended dynamic range, and excel in all parts of the frequency range.

 

Oh that sucks. Now, iTunes doesn't have many champions, but is it accessible? Apple is usually pretty good with accessibility though many capabilities are kind of tucked away.

 

It's accesseable but it doesn't like 24 bit flac files. Foobar is perfectly accesseable but it's a shame about the aparrently more hi-fi products being useless to me.

 

Hello Robert, i use 2 older dacs which both sound good with piano to my musically untrained ears, namely a Benchmark DAC1 HDR (thats High Dynamic Range) which is also a headphone amp and works as a competant pre amp should you need to use it like that ,it also has a rotary volume control and separate rotary input selector built in... i see that you've already had a suggestion of the more modern Benchmark Dac3, so that hopefully means that my ears are reasonable in telling me that Benchmark are good for Piano, the Dac1 HDR would be purchased used as it came out in 2010 so now its well within your budget for a piece of studio standard kit and has a metal remote control too.

My 2nd suggestion is a JDSLabs EL Dac this is very plug and play as it only has connections in and out with no volume controls..its controlled by a power switch at the back and a touch button on the front to select the inputs ..this touch button lights up different colours to indicate which input has been selected and needs selecting each time it is powered up so i think the only way you would know that the correct input was selected would be to have some volume already dialed in and keep touching till you heard something. Others may well be able to suggest more Dacs in a similar price range to the JDS Labs which is only a few hundred pounds.

I've suggested a couple of older 2nd hand dacs as i do think that its only in the listening with our own kit and ears we can truly know if we will hear brilliant music, hence i'd be inclined to audition a few quality 2nd hand dacs and keep the 1 i enjoyed the most.

I like others here am really disapointed to learn that Rune and Jriver do not have a good implementation for accessibility.

 

Foobar is hi-fi and is as good as JRiver for sound quality if you configure the Foobar components correctly. The difficulty with Foobar is getting it configured out of the box and getting the right components installed and configured. That part would be difficult with a screen reader. But if you have someone else who can see and can set it up for you then you're good after that. Once you've got a layout in Foobar that is working well with your screen reader software then stick with it.

 

This is a very good DAC - I use its predecessor daily and have done for many years
M2Tech HiFace Evo DAC Two 384/32 and DSD DAC | eBay

Couple it with a decent LPSU and you have very capable digital playback
I have LPSUs for my Squeezebox Touch and my Evo DAC made by Nick at Longdog Audio - Nick is fanatical about power supplies

 

Personally I don’t believe in a DAC good for piano or what instrument or specific genre whatever.
A good DAC is simply true to the source. Period.
Benchmark DAC3 is a very good one but twice your budget.
RME ADI-2 FS is pretty close to it at half price.
It’s strong point, a lot of options like EQ, might be a drawback in your case as you can’t see the menu.
Topping D90 is even cheaper ($700) but measures superb
Wonder if you can read this review because of the graphs
Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

Most media players are basically library managers.
They don’t have a sound.
Assuming Windows, choose one that allows for WASAPI Exclusive to talk straight to your DAC.
It prevents Windows to meddle with the sound quality.

Foobar is an excellent choice.
Its default interface is pretty simple.
Might be a great benefit when using a screen reader.
Personally I prefer MusicBee but are totally at loss how it is to use it blind.

Success!

 

Avoid the Chinese Topping / SMSL dacs at all costs, they measure well but the sound quality is lacking, I have had the SMSL M400 and Topping D90 both lacked emotion, a very sterile sound.

For the money I would suggest the Denafrips Ares II, significantly better then the Chord Qutest I used to have and within your budget.

Piano sounds sublime from this R2R dac!

 

I'd be interested to hear more about what components you use with foobar. My output is set to DS (direct sound) but what else should I be configgering? All the config options are available to me. Any third party plugins that are worth having? I have asio but the delay with it is massive and it instantly shuts my screanreader off.

 

That sounds very interesting indeed, thank you!

Thank you for what seem like a few great suggestions!

the dac you mention also seems worth looking at. What on earth is a squeezebox though?

 

Squeezebox Touch is a networked audio rendering device.
Think of it as an audio transport.

The DAC I mentioned will play with Foobar quite happily, so it will work nicely with your computer.

 

Finally! I’m not crazy. The comment is 100% correct. ASR hardly go into detailed listening review. It’s like 90% measurements based. The D90 measures so darn well but truth be told, it’s not the smoothest or engaging DAC. Sterile is the word.

Denafrips ... be careful ... careful with pairing. Paired with the right components it’s really good. If not it can sway towards sounding a little bland. I spent some time with the Pontus.

One DAC that impressed me is the MSB The Analogue DAC. Not tried the latest series but MSB really gives a smooth analogue kinda of presentation with good sound texture etc.

I would love to audition its new Discrete DAC.

 

As you coming from vinyl, I do not think you will like most Delta Sigma DACs. I have a Schiit Gungnir that I very recently had upgraded from DS to multibit (R2R) aka GUMBY. One of the main differences I noticed was keyboards and pianos. More natural. I have a Topping D50 (DS ESS Sabre chipset) .in another system and one of the things I do not like about it is how it does keyboards/piano.

 

Robert, for a few weeks I've been using a Bryston BDA-2. A used one might be close to your budget, though slightly more. To my ears, it's a DAC that avoids making piano sound clangy and hard. Of course, it won't fix bad recordings -- there are plenty -- but neither will it add those unpleasant qualities to a good recording. The interface is simple, a row of buttons. Perhaps it's one to add to your list of possibilities.

 

Quad Artera Play+ (using the ‘fast’ filter setting). Stunning value for money and build - Includes a CD drive and two analogue inputs too so it’s also a pre-amp. Manages that difficult trick of reproducing a piano with its correct richness, weight, and sonority. It bettered my Chord Hugo TT2 in that respect, I have to admit!

 

Moon are the most musical DACs I have heard or owned, they work very well indeed with any form of acoustic music. I have owned Arcam and Musical Fidelity and listened to others such as Bryston and a few more whose names escape me.

I recently upgraded from the 300D to the 280D.

 

You need to set Foobar up using a WASAPI output mode or another mode that is able to do bit-perfect audio.

DirectSound will resample and mix the audio. The resampling algorithm and dithering it does is very poor. If you're using DirectSound you are not hearing what your current DAC is really capable of. I'd suggest putting your DAC search on hold and get Foobar configured to do bit-perfect audio. Listen to your current DAC using WASAPI audio and find out if that is the type of improvement you're after for piano sound.

I'm not up to date with the current Foobar components and current best practices for configuring Foobar. I'd suggest making a new thread for advice on configuring Foobar for best audio quality. There are people here who know the details of Foobar and will respond to a thread with Foobar in the title.

WASAPI is an exclusive mode. Meaning it takes over your sound device. That will be a problem if you have your screen reader configured to also speak through your DAC and audio system. If your screen reader is configured that way then mention that and people can offer advice on how to configure the screen reader audio.

 

I have just got foobar through wasappi event and it works fine! yay! going to propperly test it with piano stuff tomorrow as my wife who's hearing is frankly better than mine for this stuff is asleep.
However, there's event and push. Any appreciable difference between the two?

 

Try 'em and make your own decision.
With some hardware it makes a difference, with other hardware not.

 

Echoing the Schiit Yggdrasil recommendation above. A few sources for consideration:

• Ian Dunmore's thread on Super Best Audio Friends where he compared the Yggdrasil to tens of other DACs, and often specifically discusses their rendering of piano: Life after Yggdrasil: Watering the Ash . FYI this user is no longer active on SBAF because he became the managing editor at headphones.com. Ian is also a pianist. "Of all the DACs I've heard, and there have been a few, nothing beats Yggdrasil for rendering Piano." (source)
• Another post re: the Yggdrasil on SBAF by a piano player, in relevant part: "This is by far the most realistic sounding Dac I have ever owned. Piano sounds live with all the fundamentals. Trust me I know about fundamentals especially after tuning my piano!" (source)
• Absolute Sound review: Schiit Audio Yggdrasil DAC .
• Stereophile review (with Analog 1 boards): Schiit Audio Yggdrasil D/A processor . And again with the Analog 2 upgrade: Schiit Audio Yggdrasil D/A processor The Analog 2 upgrade .

I will note too that Mike Moffat, the designer of the Yggdrasil, is focused on reproducing musical information from recorded instruments in a real acoustic space. This has influenced his decision to use a multi-bit, R2R design instead of a delta-sigma design. It also influenced the development of Schiit's custom filter. See:

(source)

I bought my Yggdrasil in 2016 and had it upgraded it last year with the Analog 2 boards. The current Yggdrasil is just shy of $2,500 new from Schiit, but if you need to save some coin you could also get an Yggdrasil GS for $1,600 that is the same as the current production model except it (1) uses the older Analog 1 boards and (2) does not contain the current USB module.

 

Audio Note DACs range from around $1,500 on up - I would choose any of them for acoustic instruments in particular including the piano.
Of course, DACs like other components tend to be system dependent. From a computer, you would need a respectable USB to SPDIF converter. Digital created by people who listen to vinyl tends to help.

Still, I would fix your turntable rig

 

I use and Audio Note DAC and have to say it sounds very nice when it comes to piano sound. But as with anything, the recording has to be good.

 

Event style is better if your DAC supports it.
Push style is what was used ten years ago. Then they developed Event style. Event style is more efficient for the computer to manage. So event style works out better if the DAC hardware works well with it.

If you get glitches in the audio while using WASAPI event mode then adjust the buffer length. I believe the default buffer length is 1000 ms. It's counterintuitive, but shorter buffer lengths often fix the glitches. Don't be shy about trying very short buffer lengths. Some DACs work better with buffer lengths as short as 20 ms. If you get audible glitches using event mode then try various buffer lengths between 20 ms and 1000 ms and then higher to find a setting that works for your DAC.

If you continue to have glitches and problems with event mode then try the push mode. Most likely the event mode will work better.

 

The Korean Waversa DAC has a totally different approach of converting to analog. They built and programmed their own conversion algorithms to create an analogue signal (WAP). It requires the latest powerful chip generation. On top of that - what could be particularly interesting for you is their WPX algorithm, which (re-) creates/adjusts up to the 32th upper harmonics of the music signal. This allows you to find your own optimum for any recorded piano.
Their signature DAC is about 6k$, but they also have a mini DAC for ~$1k with similar functionality. I am not sure if it is available in the UK, but it is in Germany, which might just works still before Brexit. For the site you need Google translate to be on.
WMiniDAC - WaversaSystems