Warning to all record collectors!!! (outer bag/inner sleeve concerns)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by rockadelic, Oct 17, 2014.

  1. Artyom Yakovlev

    Artyom Yakovlev Active Member

    It's not that simple. If you read the vinylengine topic, you'll see that there are lots of cases when a record kept in an inner poly-lined sleeve, in an outer cardboard sleeve and in an outer PVC sleeve was ruined by the chemical reaction with PVC.
    I can't even imagine how this reaction may be possible if there are two layers of paper and cardboard between outer PVC and a record, but photos with wavy PVC sleeves (with "waves" in the shape of the record) prove that it's indeed possible. I guess paper and cardboard are porous in their structure, and they aren't strong enough to prevent leakage of PVC molecules.
    Of course, picture discs are worst in this situation because they aren't usually supplied with protecting cardboard or paper sleeves and directly contact the PVC surface.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
  2. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    So you are not clear on this. Ok I will explain it again. The PVC material as it changes or breaks down over the years releases a gas, like smoke or fumes, and this gas is so strong that it can easily seep through cardboard or a thin layer of plastic and this gas finds vinyl to be very weak and vulnerable to it. The vinyl fogs up in the presence of this seeping gas. Yes right through the cover and the record liner.
     
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  3. Artyom Yakovlev

    Artyom Yakovlev Active Member

    This is gross.
    I'd started using those PVC outer sleeves about three or four months ago (bought 10 or 15 of them altogether) but yesterday I took all my records out of them. I could see that one of the sleeves was kinda sticky and it stuck to the outer paper sleeve but luckily the records are unharmed.
    If a record is completely damaged by PVC and unplayable, I don't think I'll ever need its near-mint sleeve.
     
  4. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I bought some
    However this is not always the case (mostly not) so I guess depends on storage conditions such as temp or humidity. I have not had this problem on records stored for decades in a PVC outer (only a few). They all look unblemished and those tried play fine. At least no additional surface noise than I remember. I'm guessing it's not such a worry in temperate climate and a centrally heated house in winter months.
     
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  5. Artyom Yakovlev

    Artyom Yakovlev Active Member

    Better safe than sorry!
    It's also interesting that lots of affected people are from Australia. Perhaps they had a huge supply or production of "bad" PVC sleeves there.
     
  6. Graham

    Graham Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I've bought 500 PVC sleeves over the past 18 months. Granted they're not the thick variety like those used by Simply Vinyl, but I'm taking no chances. In the next day or two, all will be removed. I'll then sell them on eBay.

    I've already requested some sample Blake sleeves be sent to me and, if I like them, these look to be an economical and decent replacement.
     
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  7. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    I'd get the Japanese reseal able type and be done with it. They keep dust out and can keep water out if sprayed or a light flood like broken water main.

    Ditch the thick PVC ones fast.
     
  8. martinb

    martinb Forum Resident

    I've also bought about 500 PVC sleeves in the last couple of years, mostly from Covers 33, I was planning to keep buying 50 at a time and eventually put the whole collection in them, but they're coming off now.

    I've got a small order of the Polypropylene sleeves coming from an eBay seller, to try them out, I like the look of those from Sleeve City, but it would work out expensive with the shipping.
     
    quicksrt likes this.
  9. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Hate them - similar to the ones MOV use - the sticky strips damage covers if you are not careful. Those are out before the PVC ones. Replace them with the thicker soft polythene variety. In general I stopped using PVC (except for a few gatefold sleeves) some years ago due to the bulk and cost and now only buy poly sleeves.
     
  10. Graham

    Graham Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    The Blake sleeves are designed like the Japanese sleeves, but have the sticky bit on the main body of the sleeve, not on the flap, to avoid damaging covers.
     
    Dino likes this.
  11. Clark V Kauffman

    Clark V Kauffman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Des Moines, Iowa
    That's the key with re-sealable sleeves. Gotta have the adhesive strip on the main body of the sleeve and not on the flap itself. Reduces the risk of coming into contact with the LP cover to almost zero.
     
  12. Artyom Yakovlev

    Artyom Yakovlev Active Member

    I have quite some MoV titles (the oldest one is MOVLP004 - "Accelerator" by the Future Sound of London). The old ones were shipped in bad re-sealable sleeves with the strip on the flap, while the new titles are packed in good sleeves with the strip on the body. I like the new sleeves a lot.
     
  13. Phil D

    Phil D Forum Resident

    Further to my earlier post and the fact that I've ditched ALL PVC sleeves on my vinyl, I'm concerned about the ones that contain CDs in hardback books. For instance, all the Elvis FTD books have CDs mounted inside the cover using small PVC sleeves. Has anyone had a problem with these?
     
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  14. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Well I don't think it makes much difference as glue transfers and easy to accidentally rub a sleeve against the strip. Also they are pretty insubstantial against a decent poly sleeve and a pain to open. I store them in a box so they can be reunited if I later sell a record. The Beatles Mono box uses the same covers for all but Mono Past Masters.
     
  15. Artyom Yakovlev

    Artyom Yakovlev Active Member

    I have only some educational CDs in PVC sleeves glued to books and dictionaries, so I'm not really concerned about this but they're OK. I don't think anything can happen to them because PVC (PolyVINYL chloride) reacts with vinyl - and CDs are made of aluminum and plastic.
     
  16. Phil D

    Phil D Forum Resident

    I hope you're right but over time who knows.
     
  17. hvbias

    hvbias Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast
    I think the whitish bar you are referring to is from the pressing process from some records pressed at RTI. It occurred with some Blue Note AP 45 and Music Matters 45 releases early on when those first came out. For the select titles that it happened with, every LP had that mark. Those releases would roughly line up to when the Cisco Aja came out.

    What it looks like
    http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/1/18486/DSCF3207.JPG
     
    Bill Hart likes this.
  18. hvbias

    hvbias Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast
    Someone in the Vinyl Engine thread says these BCW sleeves should be alright, and clearly advertise polypropylene instead of PVC. I used to use this exact BCW brand several years ago and I like them since they easily fit over the very thick Music Matters releases. They were perfectly flat when new, but checking several of my records now those sleeves show a sort of wavy or wrinkled appearance. However the vinyl is fine.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Kinda hard to tell from the reflection in that photo, I can try to post pics of that Cisco Aja at some point, I don't remember how Cisco packaged these, do you? Not disagreeing that it may have come from the plant that way. As I remember, I bought my copy after it was OOP, so it was probably sitting in dead inventory, sealed, for a while, and had no indication what caused it. I don't remember any sonic artifacts from the marks, but it has been a while since I've played that copy.
     
  20. hvbias

    hvbias Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast
    Bill it's the white mark to the left of the flash. The marks should not affect playback.

    I'm not sure how Cisco packaged them, but Music Matters and AP use those tear away strip outer bags. If the marks you and I are talking about are the same it is indeed from the pressing process, verified by either Joe Harley or Ron Rambach in one of the earliest Music Matters threads.

    Going back to my post #168, here is a photo of the wrinkling that appears on these BCW brand polypropylene sleeves after several years:

    [​IMG]

    So either these sleeves are misadvertised as being polypropylene, polypropylene is causing some reaction with the environment as well (my listening room is closely temp and humidity controlled) or something else entirely.

    Going through my collection I'm going to hazard an educated guess that thick PVC sleeves may be more common in the UK. I usually re-sleeve records with my own outer sleeves, but where sellers have included new outer sleeves I don't bother. It appears that nearly every record that has the thick PVC sleeves are from a handful of UK dealers. Fortunately there are no adverse affects to the vinyl, but they're all being re-sleeved now.

    Clean them first. Those pink inner sleeves leave residue on the vinyl, even if it is very difficult to see. The water in my Loricraft's glass jar would be cloudy after cleaning a single RTI pressed LP.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
    TLMusic likes this.
  21. fab4

    fab4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    I found some PVC sleeves which have begun yellowing and replaced them. Don't forget that air pollutants, humidity, temperature and light can degrade PVC (actually any material !)
    My next step will be buying some special conservation boxes for records and storing my most valuable records in the there without outer sleeves... just a piece of archival grade paper between each record.
     
  22. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Thanks, Hvbias. Helpful. In fact, I wonder whether some form of this thread should be a sticky on vinyl care somewhere on this site.
     
  23. JustinBond

    JustinBond Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles

    It looks like this record's been…
    [​IMG]
    Sabotaged…
     
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  24. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Classic rock is using the wrong style if the sticky strip is
    CDs can and will get fogged or crystalized when stored next to certain plastics. I have seen it happen to several titles.

    The Capitol Black & White Blues series of discs are especially vulnerable to this effect. I opened some of them after having them still sealed and noticed crystals forming on many of them. I was able to wash them and get perfect rips from them, but the still look oddly fogged. Had I not caught it, and waited a couple more years these CDs would have been over and fine with.

    Still sealed digipacks are the most vulnerable of CDs. Opening them helps release the gases that do them in.
     
  25. MaximilianRG

    MaximilianRG Forum Resident

    Hmmm... the only thing I had in a PVC sleeve was The Wiz soundtrack and the LP's look fine. I still threw away the sleeve and I'll just let the LP set sit out for a while and get some air.
     

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