Yes, it is possible that someone just didn't like the Lintons and thus got rid of them. It is also possible that, in this case, the limiting factor was the amp. Who knows? Perhaps it's a bit of both.
I am of the same mindset…any time a reviewer mentions an elevated or hot tweeter, my antenna perks right up, not in a good way. Sometimes its not even a harsh treble, like maybe the whole speaker’s pitch is tilted higher. Its much more subtle, yet tiring over a longer period. My Dynaudio XEO 10s are nice and clear, not fatiguing outright, but after a week or two when i flip back to my NHTs, my ears just seem to relax. I like having them as a 2nd speaker on occasion, but not as a primary system. As for the Mofi and the KLH’s, the metal tweeter immediately puts me on alert. Not to say they’re harsh, but my experience with many of their ilk, is not that positive and that a soft dome sounds more natural. I do give props to the PSB and Harbeth metal tweeters - they are both excellent.
BTW…I did update my system components on my profile page. and about my amp’s power match with the Lintons…Trust me - the Simaudio @ 50w into 8ohms and 85w into 4ohms had PLENTY of juice to power the Lintons in my room and at the volume levels i listen to.
One thing I appreciate about the millionaire body builder (aka Jay’s Audio Lab) is that unlike literally every other YouTube reviewer (or magazine), he is beholden to no one. He is not dependent upon being Swiss like in order to get review products. He buys everything himself, even absurdly expensive stuff, and lets the fur fly with his honest opinion. His personality is not one I radiate to naturally, and most of what he reviews is far beyond my budget, but I appreciate his candidness.
Yes, please please, can everyone lay off mant1ana about his choice to return the Linton! It’s not anything other than he wants a different pair of speakers. There’s no need to continue to nitpick at his system, a system that I’m sure he’s rightfully proud of. It’s as if some Linton owners take it very personally that an utter stranger on an Internet forum returned the speakers. Oy vey..
Please take what I say below in the spirit it’s intended. I’m not being snide or sarcastic nor am I pounding away furiously at my keyboard. In other words - read this in calm, rational tones - because that's how I'm typing this. We get it mate. You tried the Linton’s… didn’t find the value you thought you might. Returned them. No worries. End of story right? Apparently not. Instead you hang around the Linton threads to infer that the rest of us just haven't figured out yet that there's a "bean stalk like stalk stretching off into the heavens above them...." And worse yet - that we're a bunch of defensive fanboys who can't countenance a critical word of them and engage in contortions of logic to acquit them of their limitations. Take a minute to consider how insulting and condescending an inference that is. Speaking for myself - I’m well aware of what they aren’t. And guess what? I like ‘em anyway. Better than some speakers I’ve owned that cost many multiples of what they do. Imagine I joined a LRS thread, excited I was going to demo a pair, then found they didn't meet my expectations and then persisted in hanging around all threads related to the speakers to subtly deride both the speakers and their owners with talk of bean stalks and their (the owners) character flaws according to me? Assuming they were tolerant of my ongoing comments, would it really be so unreasonable that a LRS owner who thought there was value yet to be unlocked might muse whether changes upstream might extract more of the speakers potential? This is a gear forum after all isn't it? That's how these discussion tend to go. In your noble admonishing did it occur to you that perhaps we were coming from a similar place? With intentions that were neither malicious nor defensive and merely engaging in a hobbyist level discussion? Or are Linton owners not entitled to offer such opinions? The speakers being of such middling quality in your estimation that they don't scale with system improvements as other speakers do? I’m as intolerant of bullying as any reasonable person should be. But this has been a discussion, not the bullying campaign you're framing it as and moreover, the man can speak for himself. And he has. I wonder if you're not using the situation as a vehicle to re-state the same points you've made before. As I said...tried 'em... Didn't like 'em... Returned 'em. We get it. Just because you didn't find value here doesn't mean others don't.
You have dumped rudely upon me privately in this manner before, and now have decided to do it publicly. Alrighty then. I have noticed that you, and some others, continue to pester mant1ana about his system not being good enough for the Linton - a speaker specifically designed for budget systems far less capable than his excellent Sim Audio amp. It's that pestering that strikes me as rude and inaccurate. Over and over his system is being questioned and belittled - an excellent system that he has likely put every available spare penny into. And it's that specific sort of "it can't be the Lintons, it must be the system" type of thinking that I find inappropriate - over a speaker that, as you say, the stakes could not be lower. Do I think you're doing your best to guide mant1ana in his speaker quest? Perhaps a part of you has that intention. But another part is reacting out of deep audiophile insecurity regarding your own perception of the Linton. If two of us returned them, then maybe they aren't quite as good as you thought? And if they aren't as good as you thought, then the audiophile Gollum voices start their chorus "they say the speakers aren't good enough to keep, maybe they aren't?" And in part to push back on those internal voices, you begin to question the quality of mant1ana's system as a way to convince Gollum that "no, the Lintons really are good, it's his system that's the problem". Few things disturb an audiophile more than perceiving his own system as not being good enough. That uncomfortable reaction sends us on a mission to spend good money after bad to hopefully have Gollum be quiet for a while longer - even if it's at the expense of our friend, mant1ana. I think your approach is far less about helping mant1ana, and far more about an internal dialog between you and you Do I wish to reiterate my point? Since you asked, sure. I think very highly of the Lintons. They are a great budget speakers that weren't best for me. But neither the Linton nor the LRS are the pinnacle of speakers by any means. There is literally a Jack & The Beanstalk stalk of better speakers above them both! Mant1ana is seeking those higher elevations, where there are a boatload of top notch speakers that perfectly match his current amp. I for one wish him, and his excellent system, the best on that quest and look forward to his future dispatches. I encourage you to do the same.
But can we really help Mant1ana? I can share my experience with the Lintons but I don't know anything about a Linton that is better than the Linton. If there was a better Linton out there we would know it by now. It sounds like the Dovedale might be the ticket but whether that speaker is going to be worth the money is anyone's guess. Otherwise I agree with Toneh. In a way, Mantiana is telling happy Linton owners that these speakers are good, but not good enough for him. Maybe he is asking the wrong people? Oh, BTW, am I a fanboy? You betcha! I'm not interested in a technically better speaker that has more clarity, more detail and that is more smooth around the edges. It just wouldn't be the Lintons anymore.
Tonah wasn't knocking his system. His was merely highlighting a weakness of the Lintons (of sorts): They need a powerful amp to shine.
nothing wrong with you calling out others for your interpretation of them being defensive that someone else got rid of the Lintons. It's just that you don't have to be so condescending about it. I don't see the issue with asking mant1ana qualifying questions, like do you try another amp? Did you break them in? etc... He answered and extinguished the possibilities. And this back and forth exercise, in the end should be helpful for others who are interested in learning about the Lintons reading this thread.
To clarify, I think very highly of the Linton. I think much less highly of the sort of fanboy type cliques that can form around not just the Linton, but any product, philosophy or ideology. Keeping focused on the Linton, I find that certain people tend to overly identify with the speakers and feel offended, or feel the need to defend the speaker’s honor should anyone express an opinion or perspective that is not aligned with the ordained “we are the Linton folks” creed. That sort of peculiar identification tribalism - which is endemic across the expanse of humanity - is extremely unintelligent and the enemy of open and honest discussion. If you follow that thread deeper, you’ll find it leads to the foundation of such things like racism. I could wax on poetic for hours on the subject, but shall not. In that light, yes, I will periodically comment in an effort to burst that clique-ish mindset bubble, to question its very validity in intelligent dialog. Consider your Linton fanboy bear duly poked (Which has no bearing on my high regard for the speakers themselves)
I was not being rude. You're trying to ascribe hostile intent where none exists. That's a pretty unimpressive "debate technique", the type you see on American cable news networks. Having had many an intelligent private conversation with you - You're better than that mate. And people employing this dubious "technique" wish to get away with saying provocative things whilst simultaneously claiming both their innocence and aggrieved status when confronted about it. "Pearl clutching" they call it... There's a far more apt (if slightly outmoded) English idiom for what this is - it's a "Storm in a tea cup". Meaning "a lot of unnecessary angst about a matter that is not important" But there are still things worth pointing out here. Especially since you're trying to walk it all back and "both sides" it in your last post. There are a few notable "tells" contained in the following quotes that form a common link in getting to the bottom of this "storm in a tea cup" IMO. I added emphasis of course, but I'd wager that's one of the clearest examples I've seen of what psychologists call projection. Which involves projecting undesirable emotions or behaviours onto someone else, rather than "owning" the unwanted feelings oneself. In other words you (and mant1ana employed here as some sort of proxy "avatar") are the innocent party. Neutral as Switzerland. And then you've proceeded to assume to know the rest of our motives? Unsurprisingly - all of them negative? I think you're the one engaged in logical contortions here mate, because you're working hard to avoid saying the quiet part out loud. But on several occasions, you already have. It seems you don't regard these speakers very highly and you think we're a little misguided in our fondness for them. So I think you're being a little disingenuous when you say... And I think you're being equally disingenuously trying to walk it back in your last post too... because you know you lost your cool and you don't want to risk alienating those you wish to keep onside or ultimately convince of your view? Or maybe you've just read it back to yourself - now think better of it - and want to save face? Because anyone who - on the one hand says... And on the other... Can legitimately claim that they... People are entitled to their views and they are equally welcome to discuss them at length. The "trouble" comes when they seek out validation and engage in manipulation to "prove" their view is the correct one and to convince others accordingly. So when someone comes along who has a similar experience to you - even an unwilling participant like mant1ana - they become a useful data point, an avatar of sorts, held up as evidence of the validity of your view. Perhaps even useful to engineer some sort of faux conflict around? Again with the ultimate aim of proving one's point. Look - we all fall prey to the various confirmation or cognitive biases that conspire to convince us that “we’re right”. They make it damn near impossible to “see” our own biases? Best you can do - through self-awareness and practice is to catch yourself doing it and - if you’re being legit, walk yourself back from the edge. Not get the ego fired up, double down on or try to construct conflict where none exists to obscure your true intentions… like they do on cable news? You're alright mate - I'm certainly not trying to run you outta town because of a difference of opinion. That would be petty and stupid. None of this **** even matters anyway. My point remains the same as last time... you tried 'em... Didn't like 'em... Returned 'em. We get it. Just do us the courtesy of being honest. Say what you really mean and then move on or whatever. No need to dress it up in all this fuss and bother and grandiose moralizing about.. Just accept that when talking to a group of people who are actually fans of a thing you're unlikely to win many over if you're trying to dissuade them. Especially not by condescending to them or stirring faux conflict when you get called on it. PS - This has the potential to get increasingly silly and alienating if it carries on. You can respond as you wish, but I'm done with this "sub-thread"... now back to the Linton's.
With all due respect Rick - my tone was conciliatory and if you read to the end you'll note I was trying to bring this stupid thing to a close. I was merely setting straight the aspersions cast in the previous post.
My experience with the Lintons changed entirely when I changed amplification. I started with my PrimaLuna Dialogue HP integrated. A nice amp and I really liked the combo. A bit mellow and rolled off on top though. An easy listen, but not exciting. But I’ll always choose a less aggressive speaker. My system is on for long periods daily and I got tired of tube replacements. When the amp when down and needed repairs, I decided to sell it as soon as I got it back. I ended up buying a NAD C165BEE preamp and a C298 power amp. The improvement was huge! The NADs really woke the Lintons up. I’m in total agreement with those who say the Lintons need current. Dynamics are back, bass is deeper/tighter and the tweeter isn’t rolled off anymore. It’s still a very easy listen, but some of the mellowness is gone- the perfect trade off. Are there better speakers? Of course. But in their price range, for what I value, I think they are the best out there. There are other speakers that interest me, but we are talking 2.5 times the cost or more of the Lintons.
I've had my Lintons for only a few weeks now, and I'm quite smitten with them. Sorry for the audiophile hyperbole, but it's the first speaker that I get excited to listen to every night. They're addicting!
No worries. I understand that @Toneh just got home from a job that's frustrating and unfulfilling. His grumpiness has little actually to do with me. No problem turning the other cheek, he's a basically good guy. No hard feelings. I retired young and spend all day at the beach. Our frame of reference, and state of mind are decidedly different. Blessings to all inhabitance of the Linton Defense League!
Bravo, well said. That DancingSea with all his sanctimonious spiritual psycho-babble was driving me nuts. Thank you, thank you for putting him in his place! But what really should be fighting is The People’s Front of Judaea. Wankers!
Mint set-up btw... I had mine paired with a 2200 too. Great pairing you've got there in a really nice room.
Thanks Toneh, it is a nice pairing, but having the room to spread things out, bringing the speakers out from the back wall etc, has upped the SQ a bit further. Happy days..
Same here, but I have to spend 3,5 times the cost of the Lintons and their stands. A Russian reviewer said the Atalante 5 (left of the photo) is cheap for what you are getting and Revival Audio is probably keeping the price low because they want to make a name for themselves.
What's the best way to get the grilles off with damaging the Linton? I'm having a hell of a time (I know they're voiced for them on)
