What are the characteristics of a tube pre-amp/solid state amp set-up?

Hi,
I am trying to figure out if a tube pre-amp/solid state amp system might be the right solution for me.
I’ve had all tube or all solid state in the past and found both to have some attributes I liked over the other (the usual suspects).
Could anyone that has had this set-up provide any general information on how it compared to an all solid-state or all tube system in terms of bass response, mid range, imaging, slam or anything else you think might be worth sharing?

 

IME a tube pre with a solid state amp produces a more tubelike experience than does a solid state pre and a tube amp, so if you're after the lushness of tubes but still want the slam, grip and heft of solid state you're on the right track. I currently have a Vincent 236 integrated, which uses tubes in the preamp section with a solid state amplifier and I love what it does and feel that, for me and my budget, it has the best of both worlds.

Since I started in with tubes several years ago I cannot really spend much time listening to an all solid-state system. It sounds too edgy and not as musical to me. That's just me and my preferences, but I won't go back over. The closest I get is with the Vincent and with using a separate tube pre with an Adcom amp. I also have all-tube systems that I adore but when I want to hear some Stooges, Zeppelin, AC/DC, or White Stripes nice and loud I almost always hook up the solid state amp. I think if you find a warmish amp with grunt and pair it to the right tube pre and the right speakers you could find what you're after if you haven't yet been satisfied with an all-tube system. Great imaging, excellent midrange but not the ultimate midrange you can hear going all tubes, but kind of close.

 

Tube pre with ss amp will give you the right amount of musicality and detail.

 

Well I did it the other way round, and it worked quite well. SS preamp driving my class A PP pentode tube amp.

jeff

 

The quality of each amp will certainly determine the overall impressions of final sound quality, in my opinion.

Having said that, I have been running a Copland CTA 301 Mk II with a Bryston 3B-ST for a little while now. A touch more forward sounding than I would ultimately prefer, but certainly a respectable combination. If you can find a good match, go for it.

In comparison, I tried a SS YBA pre with the Bryston that I could not tolerate for more than a week. Much too bright sounding. Thankfully my dealer let me make an exchange at full cost. On the other hand, I tried a Linn pre/power combo that had great heft in bass and presence, but maybe a touch darker sounding than I liked.

Again, you need to take the time and listen for yourself.

 

I have found the results completely unpredictable when pairing different types of electronics. It certainly is NOT the case that you will get the best of both worlds. You really cannot readily attribute certain qualities to a particular component, and then expect that set of properties to be evident when used in a different setup. Most difficult to predict, to me, and most often disappointing, is the mating of a tube linestage with a solid state amp. This can work, but, often the result is a muddy and sluggish sound when neither component seemed to have that kind of sound. In short experimentation is much needed.

From a practicality standpoint, if one likes to keep a solid state amp on all the time (many sound best this way), be sure that one can turn on a tube linestage without causing a lot of turn-on noise being outputted from the system (typically loud, temporary hum, or loud popping sound) if there is any kind of danger that such sound will damage the speakers or scare the cat.

 

Depends on which tube preamp and which solid state amp, into what loudspeaker, generalizations without specific information won't be helpful.

 

Thanks all. It sounds like this is no sure-bet but can be successful with the right match.

 

Good to hear you say that because that's what I went with in my newest setup in my office. I like it.

PS: I also have all tube and all SS systems in my studio.

 

The hybrid setup in my office does not rival the all tube setup in my studio - but for my office, it's pretty good, and a big improvement over what was in here two months ago. I can only fantasize about having the quality and quantity of equipment you have to choose from.

 

I know I'm not gettin the full meal deal with MX110 --> MC402, but had to make a compromise with current speakers and I do like a good rock solid medium loud kick drum once in a while. Best set up I ever had though, which is not sayin much.

 

Not a modern one, yet, someday though. Tried some 70's marantz receivers pre outs, didn't do much for me, those phono stages are handy though. Marantz 7T (transistor one), no thanks.

The MX110 phono stage and general updates/tube roll have kept me happy with it, but that draws me in to thinking all tube. Or 2 systems, Or...

 

My mc275 is at a friends house while I was on vacation, so the last few days I've had my MX110 connected to my Arcam solid state amp. Although the sound is no where close to the MX110/MC275 combo, I really really enjoyed the extra "kick" when I played AC/DC Back in Black earlier today. This LP definitely sounded better with the tube/ss combo then the tube/tube combo.

That said, I'm looking forward to getting my MC275 back tomorrow.

One thing I've thought of trying is bi-amping my speakers, with the MX110/MC275 powering the speaker's HF and using the MX110's tape out into my Arcam (it's an integrated solid state) to power the speaker's LF. Is my head in the clouds with trying this? Will it break anything? I wonder if this will give me a tubey bloom with a slamming base?

 

Whether you were referencing what I wrote above or not, you're right.

I should have said something about how that Vincent puts forth some of the better qualities of tubes and solid state.

I do think it's a worthwhile pursuit and can be done in a satisfying way. Largely out of curiosity, I hooked up a Little Dot tube headphone amp to an old Adcom amp and large advents and ended up leaving it alone for a few months, it was that enjoyable. That random pairing worked okay for me. IMO careful pairings (and a bigger budget) have the potential to yield far better results.

 

I agree with Steve that the amplifier will have the biggest effect on the sound. It is the one that 'sees' the speakers and vice versa. It reacts to the impedance changes throughout the frequency band, back EMF, etc.

Unless the preamp is very colored (most modern tube preamps are not), the tube pre/SS amp combos I have heard all sound like the SS amp.

 

So Steve, in your experience, you say that any tube preamp paired with the MC 402 the sound is going going to sound the same, or "like" the 402, regardless, right? Correct me if I assume too much, but doesn't that mean that the (or "any") tube pre and MC402 combination ends up sounding like a SS setup?

Does it follow that any SS pre you put in front of the MC402 also ends up sounding like the 402? That would, in effect, make a tube preamp indistinguishable from a SS preamp when either is fronted by the MC402.

I have the MC402 fronted by a McIntosh C220 (tube) pre and the combination sounds much more "tubey" than, for example, my friend's all SS Bryston amplification pair which sounds very, very SS to me. There's no comparison.​

A man on a porcupine fence

 

I went from a solid state pre (of questionable quality) with a SS amp to a Little Dot MK III used as a preamp and the same SS amp. Putting tubes into the chain with the Little Dot made a welcome difference, most noticeably making overly compressed loud cds more listenable.

 

Does that mean, even if you compared SS preamps with tube preams on the same amp, that matches well with the speakers, you heard no difference? I can't confirm this from my experience, even if I have active speakers since long time now and my last poweramp following a Pass was a hybrid (Lamm 1.1). If the amp is fast, open and has a good imaging and depth, in my experience, it's usually possible to hear all the tube preamp advantages.

However what I would confirm is, that if the poweramp is quite contrary in it's general sound concept to a good tube setup (i.e. a big Gryphon full Class A amp or maybe an old MC SS), it dominates so much and -even if it has special merits- it blocks the typical tube benefits.

 

What if the SS amps (in my case Electrocompaniet monoblocks) are very tuby sounding? Is in that case the combination with the tube preamp (Octave HP 500) is, of course, only strengthening the tuby sound, so working fine without having the possible disadvantages. At least, that's what I experience.