What SACD players don't convert DSD to PCM?

I own XB-770 and to this day I still dont know if this player converts pure dsd directly to analog or not. I attached the signal diagram from the service manual. I think that it converts to PCM and then to analog, although I am not sure.



I also own a Pioneer DV-600AV, which is a great machine (it also plays PC-burnt SACD ISOs and DVD-Audio, besides outputting pure dsd by HDMI) and this one I know for sure that it converts to 88,2 PCM before sending it to the DAC chip. It has three PCM1742 Burr Browns.
I don't really mind that it converts to PCM, because it sounds really great.
It seems that it is better to convert to 88,2 than to 176,4.


From what I understand, and I hope I am not mistaken, in order to convert pure dsd directly to analog you need a 1-bit dac chip. If the player has multi-bit chip, than there is no pure dsd at the analog outs.

Sony BDP-6200 does NOT have analog outs

 

I've seen many inquiries in regard to SACD players that convert DSD direct to analog by the internal DACs. I'm not familiar with which players do this other than Oppo players. DSD data is converted into an analog signal directly by the internal DAC on all of the Oppo players I own (83, 93, 103, 105, 203 and 205).

From page 61 of the 205 manual:

DSD – SACD Direct Stream Digital (DSD) data is output over HDMI without any conversion. For the analog audio outputs, DSD data is converted into an analog signal directly by the internal DAC. If you use a receiver that supports HDMI v1.2a with DSD over HDMI, or you prefer the sound quality of straight DSD to analog, please select this option.

http://download.oppodigital.com/UDP20X/UDP-205_User_Manual_English_V1.0.0.pdf

 

The very first Sony SACD players did this including the combo players. They had a DSD DAC. My ancient DVP-NS500V (that I haven't used in years) outputs with no PCM in the path to the analog outputs.

 

ModWright has the strong opinion that DSD sounds better than PCM, and all of their recommended players preserve DSD right up to D/A conversion. So, if you search Ebay or Audiogon for ModWright modified players, any of those models (even without the ModWright mods) are full DSD, including some of the more expensive Marantz and Oppo players.

 

I should add that this is the reason these devices don't have any built-in bass management. The bass management is done in the PCM domain so this player as well as all the early combo players with pure DSD DACs don't do bass management for SACD sources. This limits their usefulness.

 

Technics mentioned this about their new SL-G700 when announced 6 months ago:

DSD Native Playback

Performs the D/A conversion process for the DSD signal in the SACD recording format without converting it to a PCM signal, thus delivering the full potential of the DSD signal.

Today they got the page live, but can't find anything about it. Probably it's in the manual, which is yet to be uploaded.
Grand Class Network / Super Audio CD Player SL-G700 Hi-Fi Audio | Technics US

 

I remember comparing the DSD and PCM settings on my Oppo 105 and either heard no difference or thought PCM sounded better. I have it set to "Auto" where the player decides which is best. I have no idea what it's doing now but I know it didn't make a difference on this player.

 

The old Ayre C5 Xe mp was pure DSD, even to the point where SACD had a lower output level than CD. Used examples pop up regularly.

John K.

 

The Cambridge players output DSD without conversion when using HDMI out.
The other output options pass through the Anagram chip which is PCM

 

Yeah, some players can pass DSD over HDMI, so if your receiver supports it, it can convert the DSD straight to analog (although I suspect most would convert to PCM first, for bass management and such).

It's not a set in stone requirement that you have to convert to PCM to manipulate the signal digitally. I believe there is software, and probably chips, which can manipulate DSD in the digital domain. But they certainly aren't common and likely not cheap. Very little demand.

 

The Sony TA-P9000ES receives 5.1 analog. It was manufactured about 20 years ago. Sometimes are seen today on eBay. I have one and it's superb.

 

And therein is the rub, what stereo amplification or DACs out there today have HDMI input?

 

I initially set my OPPO-205 for direct DSD conversion to analog to enjoy multi-channel SACDs, with bass management handled by my multi-channel analog preamp; however, bass management from the preamp was insufficient. This conundrum made me entertain bass management from the OPPO, which required me to set the OPPO to convert DSD to PCM. Now, having compared the conversion processes, I can say for sure, direct DSD conversion to analog does not sound divergent from DSD to PCM to analog.

 

What about the Sony DVP-S9000ES. I think that was ModWright's first project about 20 years ago.

 

NAD, Bryston.

 

Pioneer Elite SX-S30 stereo receiver

https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-Elit...4&s=gateway&sprefix=pioneer+elite+sx-s&sr=8-2

 

Anyone knows if the Marantz UD5007 as direct DSD via analog output without PCM conversion ?

 

Without knowing for sure, I imagine so. Marantz players almost always did pure DSD.

 

If i want to be sure is to ask directly to Marantz ?

 

On page 56 of the Marantz UD5007 manual it indicates "2ch Linear PCM" output for the analog output with all discs including SACD. It appears that DSD is possible via HDMI if the video resolution is set correctly and if the connected processor supports DSD.

https://www.us.marantz.com/DocumentMaster/US/UD5007OwnersManualinEnglish.pdf

 

Ok it have a PCM conversion with analog, thank you.

 

Does DoP count as dsd to pcm conversion?

 

No. It is just puts the DSD into a different shipping carton.

 

I have been reading this whole thing with interest. I have a pioneer sc lx701. An oppo 103, and a Sony bdp x800m2. When I play the dsd disc of Avalon the info on screen from the x800m2 says it's dsd. If I put in Bryan ferry's boys and girls the info says it's pcm. Yet it's a dsd multichannel also although made by virgin, the Avalon is from Sony. Why is this ?. Also My oppo when set for dsd there is no sound over HDMI as I think it's only ment for analog out. Which I cannot use as the pioneer sc lx-701 there are no analog inputs for multichannel.

 

I recently purchased a Sony UBP-X1100ES Blu-Ray player (I think it's the only current model with analog outputs). It's affordable, sounds fantastic as an SACD player, and does not convert DSD to PCM (at least when using the analog outputs - not sure if using the HDMI digital output converts to PCM).